Self-expression, perseverance, and the ability to lean into discomfort

Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of my name––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.

Computer-generated Transcript of Conversation

00:00:03:14 – 00:00:30:01 Unknown Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned in the decades following. I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies.

00:00:30:03 – 00:01:01:19 Unknown I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale, to speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems, to rethink what schools can be, what it should be.

00:01:01:22 – 00:01:33:13 Unknown When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Oswalt, a poet, writer and content creator, about his memories of growing up with cerebral palsy. We talk about what his environment, both at home and at school was like and what kind of messaging he received from his teachers and peers and parents about his talent and interests.

00:01:33:15 – 00:01:48:16 Unknown We also talk about student assessment and what a better alternative to grades and tests could look like. Here is our edited conversation.

00:01:48:18 – 00:02:24:04 Unknown We were both born prematurely six, three, six weeks. We would take we would not expect to survive because the legend goes that a flushing hospital in the nick, you, the babies around us were all passing away. And for some, for some reason, my stories, a kind of legend, kind of legend in the family. It’s like we we survived.

00:02:24:06 – 00:02:57:01 Unknown We survived. Yeah. I was wondering what growing up was like for you. I was born in the States. Both parents emigrated. Both parents immigrated to the United States. And I was born here in New York. So it’s just a bit of a dynamic where it’s like, I speak English and Spanish, but not the same language to both parents.

00:02:57:03 – 00:03:26:09 Unknown what do you mean? Which is like, I only speak Spanish only to my mom, English only to my dad. wow. So what what language do your parents communicate with? Spanish. So why did your father not speak Spanish with you? Because he was trying to improve his own English. Not for nothing like their words. I’m sorry.

00:03:26:12 – 00:03:56:02 Unknown You were trying to teach the language, and it’s like. It’s kind of been a common thread through the schooling with the Spanish classes throughout. High school called a school college. And the they were actually, if they didn’t like, stick it easily as everyone else did, to the point where it’s like they would have to caveat other members of the family.

00:03:56:04 – 00:04:37:16 Unknown he doesn’t speak Spanish very well. Or so they had the caveat that everyone else in the in the family. Yeah. So I’m so then I’m thinking like do you. So do you feel more comfortable speaking Spanish or English now. Can you communicate more in English. Yeah. Like for example, they, when they have to be silly, someone needs to translate something.

00:04:37:18 – 00:05:01:23 Unknown But something like it was more. My previous job was where I worked in a donation call center and there would be the occasional donor that would only speak in Spanish. No one else in the room spoke Spanish but me, and I would get from that call or the odd building personnel that only spoke Spanish and a also this one.

00:05:02:00 – 00:05:55:23 Unknown This one’s for you. And it’s like I in my best. I mean, it wasn’t perfect, wasn’t flawless, but I was the new enough to be able to solve to be able to solve the issue that was in front of me. So you can speak Spanish enough to get by, have conversations. Yeah. But yeah, at the least. Yeah. Like, and also the the suits visiting the two times they traveled to Spain in 2015 and 16 on a bus full of Americans, I’m like, I’m the only one other than the guide and the driver that spoke Spanish to the point where, like, I would kind of like, help them speak to them in Spanish to the best

00:05:55:23 – 00:06:24:00 Unknown that I could. And they understood me and I was kind of the ad hoc translator for everyone else. Yeah, that I can kind of relate to that, I think. I don’t speak Korean very well. And like you said, like your family, you know, gave other family members that caveat of, he doesn’t speak Spanish that well. That was kind of like me.

00:06:24:00 – 00:06:48:15 Unknown You know, a lot of people would be like, yeah, she speaks Korean at home, but not not well enough. You know, for like Korean Koreans. And it’s ironic now that, like, I’m living in South Korea right now in all of my family members are still in the States. So it’s kind of ironic sometimes when I think about it.

00:06:48:17 – 00:07:35:16 Unknown And so like, I’m kind of curious, like, you know, what kind of story ese did you hear about yourself from your parents while you were growing up? Well, first thought for starters, I guess schools before the A for first day after being born premature. And then I was diagnosed with civil palsy. From a very young age, three. But it didn’t stop me from like climbing out of the closet because the home I live now, I’ve lived here since about the age of three, the first two years of my life living in an apartment and another part of Queens and Flushing.

00:07:35:18 – 00:08:11:09 Unknown And I could only escape my crib. We’re not like I was just kind of like, I think the kind of, like, rambunctious, hyperactive, like, type of person as a little kid, having something with silly at some point in your life, like you stop, be like you like the personality changed to where like I wasn’t like so like hyperactive rambunctious and a more the quiet reserved like I’ll be okay warmly like I’ll keep to myself.

00:08:11:09 – 00:08:42:19 Unknown I won’t see much other than other than my sister like sure she so finally talked to at home but other than that like and it’s like unless like this specific situation that calls from really conversation like that 99% of the time I tend to keep to myself I don’t know where at what point in my life that like that transition happens.

00:08:42:21 – 00:09:22:15 Unknown And what about your sister? Was she also. I don’t know. No, we she she she No. Was she like grew up to like a lot. So the fact that like we were both like fought like really low birth weight and didn’t leave the hospital for quite a while after birth, like she grew up as normal as one can.

00:09:22:17 – 00:10:16:06 Unknown No Muslim can be. You mentioned the word normal. And I’m wondering, you know, at what point in your life, at what age did you start associating yourself away from that word normal? I guess it was probably the faculty. I guess it was either towards the end, the elementary school, like I like I would do. There was a no because I had the braces on my leg orthotics, this even this weird contraption that started from like the hip school, right of legs to a pair of shoes at the bottom that I had to wear.

00:10:16:08 – 00:10:50:00 Unknown So that that’s when they kind of started to think, okay, I’m not exactly a normal, I’m not a normal. And granted, like, I think I went I, I took I was in special education classes were like everyone was in similar patterns in those six similar situations that eventually I would change out of special ed. But that wouldn’t be until like, well, like towards the back end of high school.

00:10:50:02 – 00:11:32:10 Unknown But it was like, I guess like I did actually, like I did, I was doing so well that they eventually transition me out of a special ed and it was just a great like. But even then it was like elementary, middle school, early high school, like I would have classes with like in my schedule with regular students. So I guess that’s when I, that’s when I realized, look like I, I can stick a stick out like a sore thumb in the as everyone else’s is functioning normally.

00:11:32:10 – 00:12:24:07 Unknown And here I am like here I am dropped into this situation as dropping the situation. What is different about special education when juxtaposed with the standard curriculum where it’s like a more common, like extended time like yeah, the accommodations have to be have to be extended time, like quieter places. You need someone that really questions to like that’s where you get if it’s if it’s listed accommodations on your IEP that’s you have to be they have to be met.

00:12:24:09 – 00:12:55:11 Unknown Okay so tangent when I was younger there was a lot of testing done and I only have like little memories here and they’re like snippets. And I think the teachers told my mother that I would really benefit from being in a special class. And I don’t know, because my mother’s English is a little bit limited and her memory is questionable what that special meant.

00:12:55:11 – 00:13:21:16 Unknown And was it like, you know, was it special education or was it just, you know, I don’t know what it was. And, you know, I am recently realizing over the past couple of years that I’m neurodivergent And, you know, I had a lot of learning challenges when I was growing up because I think, you know, I have many of the presentations and symptoms of ADHD.

00:13:21:18 – 00:13:54:23 Unknown And I’m wondering like, okay, I maybe could have and also like English was my second language. There was just a lot going on. My family was unstable, you know, various adults in and out of my life. And so there was a lot going on. But whenever I hear people talk about special education and their experience with it, I’m always like, I could have really benefited from that kind of environment.

00:13:55:00 – 00:14:37:19 Unknown And I’m wondering why is it that there are people who get this and there are people who don’t least like my my grade C, I guess. Guess what? If my grades were really well, I was doing really well and they figured I guess they figured the child can because it wasn’t challenging enough I guess. It’s like a big the transition came purely on the fact that my grades, it was doing really well grades wise.

00:14:37:21 – 00:15:08:14 Unknown That’s really interesting that you mention that, you know this challenge part so is it, is it when we’re doing well that, you know, teachers and adults think, okay, they’re ready for something more challenging and let’s see, you know, if they can do something without additional support. So I guess they take off these, like, training wheels. Yeah. And how did you do when you.

00:15:08:16 – 00:15:41:11 Unknown Well, okay. What it wasn’t as wasn’t as easy. I mean, granted like starting the regular classes in occurred of my junior year of high school which summer of 2001 had two legs, two surgeries on my right leg. The last the last set of surgeries I had in my life time to this point. So I came back to school September 25th.

00:15:41:13 – 00:16:21:24 Unknown So it was like the school year had already started, but I wasn’t ready. Like I wasn’t ready to go back in because I was still recovering from surgery. You see the two surgeries on my leg in six weeks. So it was just like, okay, I’m a bit behind the eight ball because of the fact that I started the school year, junior year late, and it was a bit of a struggle to the point where I had to six I ended up in summer school at the end of that and of that year, not because of the grades, it was more like the standardized tests.

00:16:22:01 – 00:17:11:15 Unknown I ended up. I feel like the the the New York State math exam ended up failing. It. And the result, like I had to take, I was due to really take it again August of 2002, but pretty much say it wasn’t exactly is it was wasn’t a busy it was some difficulty like I’m not going to some difficulty at the same time particularly when it came to like his history classes like that’s the one subject I seemingly did really well to the point I mean, granted, like my teacher happened to be the head of the Social studies department.

00:17:11:17 – 00:17:45:03 Unknown He saw that I there was something like I was able to take the New York State your history exam before everyone else did. I did really well on it. It took it again when I was supposed to did it. It nailed it again. Really did really well. It twice was like the only of the state exams that I cleared well past the 65 minimum that you needed to pass.

00:17:45:05 – 00:18:15:10 Unknown Like everything else, like English bio, it was like those were like the math. Those are the ones I barely like. I barely passively. Chemistry Regents At the very end of senior year of high school. If I failed that one, I would not have been able to have graduated on time. I would have been able to go to the graduation ceremony and Tunable three.

00:18:15:12 – 00:18:47:03 Unknown So it was like all the other subjects. I struggled to barely get across the line, whereas like the global and US history from when you as history exams, I pass by a lot by a mile. That’s awesome. What do you think it was about history that you enjoyed or that allowed you to thrive? What were the conditions? It was, I guess I just loved.

00:18:47:03 – 00:19:19:01 Unknown It’s okay. History. History’s fascinating to me. It was even a point where I was offered to offer the chance to take the AP history course, but I ultimately declined that option because I thought I wouldn’t be able to. Would it be able to handle it because I would know I had to take the AP history exam. It was like I did not need that much pressure on my head.

00:19:19:03 – 00:19:44:00 Unknown Even if it would have been like in I instantly we knocked off a credit or to sue like lessen them to like it’s my degree a little bit, my bachelor’s degree a little bit quicker than I did. But history just fascinates me really. I guess it’s the adage those that don’t know the history are doomed to repeat it.

00:19:44:00 – 00:20:47:10 Unknown That kind of was what’s been in my head over every time, over everything I learned about it. Yeah. So I’m curious about that because I did not do well in U.S. history. History was one of my least favorite. And I just history. I don’t have a very good memory. And I’m curious for you, like, I think it takes a certain type of memory and the ability to see how things connect that has I guess there might have been it because when it comes to my memory, like some things I remember, where is the counter, the detail, whereas others like it will be like kind of scattershot, like I won’t remember like every single thing

00:20:47:10 – 00:21:50:04 Unknown down to the detail, but I remember I remember a lot and all that, how everything connects. Yeah, that, that’s really impressive. So I didn’t, I didn’t do well in history also because so much of that history didn’t feel relevant to me. And I’m wondering, like, was that an important factor for you? Like seeing people that either had similar histories or, you know, like, I mean, so my parents and family are from South Korea and, you know, like East Asia is not really was not really mentioned in U.S. history and in world history to the extent where I thought, okay, I understand this, this is relevant to my life.

00:21:50:06 – 00:22:18:24 Unknown And so, you know, for me, history just felt like completely felt disjointed from who I was, who I needed to become. And so I’m wondering for you, like, where did you find that in? Did you find, like, representation? How did you feel like history was relevant to you and your life? I guess also like with my Casey, you know, I was born in in the States.

00:22:19:01 – 00:22:47:16 Unknown That side of the family is from Cuba. Mom. So the family’s from Ecuador. It’s more towards the towards south and like essentially towards the Americas in my particular case. And it’s more like I as far as like more towards my dad’s side and like, he he came through me. Dad came through the Puerto Mariel in Cuba in the early eighties.

00:22:47:16 – 00:23:19:20 Unknown He was one of those that that came came into the country, was quite a Mariel. So I heard it heard of all, heard all of it. And it like still like it’s a highly relevant topic in the house. Same goes for is like the same singles for Ecuador like we think we have Ecuadorian so we were in television movie TV channel.

00:23:19:22 – 00:24:21:05 Unknown So it’s like even though like like either neither country gets like talked about like, talked about that much in history More, more my dad’s more like more towards Dad’s side who Cuban revolution, Cuban missile crisis and the whole in the bit. They even though neither country is the so ubiquitous in the history, it’s more like parents like remind us of like they reminded us somehow they have they grew how how much of a struggle their particular lives were how much of a struggle it was emigrating to the states and just adjusting to life in a place that neither of them ever really knew to begin with?

00:24:21:07 – 00:24:54:16 Unknown Yeah, you know, that kind of reminds me of something like another thing that I really was conflicted about when learning about history. And I think there were times where, you know, there was talk about like Asian-Americans and like a lot of, you know, history related to China and I guess also Japan. But, you know, there was not real big mention of Korea.

00:24:54:18 – 00:25:34:16 Unknown And also, I think like my family’s like opinions about Korea and their history was very niche. And I’m wondering for you, like, what kind of conversations did you have inside the home with your parents about their history? It was more like the news or like, for example, like my mom. LI My mom, my mom, like, left school too early to serve her siblings.

00:25:34:18 – 00:26:21:06 Unknown Yeah, she has a health she has a quite a had some numbers on her. And as far as it’s like as far as dad. Finally, if his family is really they wonder about my sister and I and if you know and feel like bring them will bring up bring them up like we’ve actually been actually been the both countries if this is both sides of the family B in my lifetime it was just really small even It’s not like it’s like not like it’s it’s there.

00:26:21:06 – 00:26:57:08 Unknown It’s like it’s not only, you know, sleeping under the rug, like with both sides of the family are very much part of the conversation even or the conversation, even though they even though, like, I’ve only like I don’t feel like it really close to the either really close this close to a family inside of the family. It’s more of a come close to mom, dad, sister.

00:26:57:10 – 00:28:01:00 Unknown Like the immediate family. That’s right. Yeah, that makes sense. And another question I had was what kind of feedback did your parents have for you when you were excelling in history and doing well on these exams? And like, what kinds of aspirations or messaging or opinions of you they share with you? I mean, they were proud of me that I was doing so well, like as far as, like aspirations, like when we they could not drill, listen to our heads enough that they wanted us to go to college to get our degrees, because neither neither of them, neither the neither one was able to do so.

00:28:01:02 – 00:28:35:23 Unknown So they had like to go to please schooling, go to college, get to get your degree, get the job. It’s like kind of like the old like the standardly fault line of like how life is supposed to supposed to go. Whereas like, there wasn’t really much room for me in, like, interests. Really. What do you what were you exactly what do you want to want to do?

00:28:36:00 – 00:29:23:04 Unknown It’s morally as long as you, like, get these, like complete your schooling, find a job, find someone like find someone, someone, someone get married early on that it was kinda this kind of that was we were to our own devices after that. What were some challenges for you in kind of preparing to go to college? And when it came to preparing for college, I honestly did not know what I wanted to.

00:29:23:06 – 00:30:02:02 Unknown I know what I wanted to do with my life. Like I, I guess it been the fact going back, really, given everything that had already gone through, I didn’t really have much in the way of expectation or like vision for what I wanted to what I wanted my future to pan out. Sure, I had Lee various that I had wanted to be a scientist, wanted to be an airline pilot at various points in my life, but I didn’t really have like an I didn’t really know what I wanted to do with my life.

00:30:02:04 – 00:30:41:08 Unknown So it was just like, okay, I just need to just need as long as someone college accepted me and I had a plan for like going ahead and then basically, like, so when it came to speaking of history, I applied to Hunter College here in New York City as a history major. But because my great my c T scores were not high enough to get me, I had to take the placement test.

00:30:41:10 – 00:31:19:10 Unknown SAT scores were terrible, terrible. I didn’t do particularly well on the placement exam either because timed exams, like when it came to accommodations, like I realized they were like elementary, middle and high school. Like you have your IEP, they have to give it to you. Whereas like college, like, say two years, my college, you kind of have to go out of your way to request accommodations, the accommodations that you need.

00:31:19:12 – 00:32:04:21 Unknown So I just took the tests, like, as if everyone else that we were no different than anyone else. And as a result, like the scores were not not spectacular in the slightest. And as a result, like, I had to take the CUNY placement exam and the writing and the reading exam, I passed the writing and math exams. I failed and ended up like, as a result, the first three choices on my list Honor College, Queens College and Lehman College, were all off limits to me.

00:32:04:23 – 00:32:40:02 Unknown John Jay College. The John Jay College. John Jay College, Queensborough Community College and LaGuardia Community College were options four, five and six. John Jay being the fourth choice. That’s where I ended up. I applied as a public admin major because I was like, okay, like I options A, B and C are all close to me. I had to scramble to figure out what looks big, looks interesting to me.

00:32:40:04 – 00:33:21:19 Unknown And at the time, public administration seemed like something that I would want to go into. But as I would eventually realize when I took public and minimal no one and nearly failed the class, which is the only time in five years at John Jay that I like failed, or they came perilously close to failing a course. I realized this public administration is that for me it’s too, too technical and there’s too much involved and I struggle to make it through public.

00:33:21:19 – 00:34:04:12 Unknown I’m in with a one. So I changed my major to criminal justice. I’m thinking it’s more of a given the circumstances. It’s more of a more of a catchall type of situation. And there were various like, like constantly constitutional law, corrections, criminology, forensics, which even though like I at first, like, never envisioned myself early going to because you think, because John Jay College started as a school for solely for those when they needed NYPD.

00:34:04:14 – 00:34:38:00 Unknown And naturally everyone assumed that, you’re going to be going to the police department after you graduate. But honestly, like I even the fact that, like what I was studying sounded intriguing. I really had no idea like leaving John Jay what I wanted to do with my life. I never really, honestly, never really did. And honestly, to this day, I still don’t know what like where what I want to do with my life.

00:34:38:02 – 00:35:10:01 Unknown Like, I kind of feel it at the same time. I kind of fell into my writing like is something I would do. Like the first edition of First Generation. They blog, like scratching out like, sure, like going in the Borders bookstore or like hitting the playlist section and reading it and thinking, I could like, do something like that, and then heavily pick half pointedly paying attention to a little lecture with both years.

00:35:10:01 – 00:35:44:10 Unknown But even honestly, I was like scratching out these mini plays during my during figure lectures. So it was just, I think, dabbled in a lot of things, never really knowing what exactly I wanted to do with my life. Yeah, I never expected to be expected to like as long as they survive. Like it didn’t really matter, like what else they became, What else?

00:35:44:10 – 00:36:47:13 Unknown My life would be cut term as long as I was still on my own two feet. Yeah, and that’s something I want to follow up with you on. And I’m wondering, like, what do you think that maybe compulsory education or like teachers or other guardians could have done before you graduated either high school or college? What do you think they could have done to maybe encourage that experimentation and understanding of what other so senior year of high school, a head of that of course, free exercise or for homework One night just got to essentially you have a list of words that you were given and your assignment was to turn it into a poll.

00:36:47:15 – 00:37:12:09 Unknown I did not know what it was doing at the time when I did the assignment, but when they got my paper back, my teacher wrote on the left margin of the paper Oswald Europol, where we I’m like looking at it kind of dumbfounded because I’m like, I have no idea of what she had, no idea what she’s talking about.

00:37:12:11 – 00:37:53:11 Unknown Okay. At first I would just say to kind of do the same for my parents, the mothers, the court fathers, the cards, birthday Christmas cards. I never thought to myself that they were empty words, that what I was doing and was anything even approaching poetry or post hosts to do that. So I met. It would have been like it would have been like, helpful, like maybe like sort out, like just to see what my possibilities were.

00:37:53:13 – 00:38:28:18 Unknown Because like, only like now the way they starting the league dig into that. My yeah. And I think those moments right from our teachers when they you know show us like who we are, like they give us feedback on the gifts and abilities they see in us. I think those are like the little clues that we get toward like, what what can we do with this?

00:38:28:20 – 00:38:51:13 Unknown Maybe that can benefit the world once were, you know, on our two feet and things like that. And I think you mentioned before that you were a late bloomer. And I’m wondering like, was that sort of like the first or the most memorable moment that made you realize, I’m a writer, I’m a poet, Or were there other ones?

00:38:51:13 – 00:39:49:09 Unknown That was that was probably between that and much later in life, like 2012, like I, I came it was the morning after trip that my sister and I took the Paris and London, which that in and of itself was a massive moment of serendipity and series. So like I won the round trip ticket is turned out in New York was running a contest with accelerate France at the time and I really think I would go through the contest page every week and depending on what was the prize on offer, we’d like go for it, just feel and try my look, which I did here and not expecting like I didn’t expect them to call me

00:39:49:09 – 00:40:21:16 Unknown to say that won the round trip ticket to the Paris I my sister late later that same day. I could not keep this to myself like I told her. And even then, like until like Excel Airways, like, formally reached out to me, we do that. We just say, congratulations, this is our flight schedule. So it was like we took the trip the next morning.

00:40:21:18 – 00:40:58:17 Unknown It was October 2012, but the morning after I wrote a lengthy the status update on my Facebook page to and like posts or any comments were also you should write a blog was one of the responses. It was like this is like one like string of cautiously ramble all gnarly. Like I didn’t really know how to like separate like the thoughts together and then like space it cultural eyes.

00:40:58:17 – 00:41:44:11 Unknown It was just like one long ramble of a post that eventually got to people. Stories like you should write a blog. Yeah, yeah. So I totally resonate with that. And you know, the more that I talk to people about, you know, validation and work and what kind of validation they receive from, you know, the external world. And I noticed that it’s as soon as we show who we are to people outside of us, you know what we’re capable of our inner minds, our imaginations, our talents and gifts.

00:41:44:13 – 00:42:22:21 Unknown And we receive that sort of like recognition, whatever that may be. That’s when we start, you know, like collecting those clues about what we can do with our life that can, you know, bring meaning to our community or things like that. And so, you know, I love that, you know, your teacher told you that you were a poet and that, you know, you’re the people around you gave you so much accolades around that post that you shared.

00:42:22:23 – 00:42:51:02 Unknown And and over the years and over the over the years when I would regularly they kept getting us old like you should. Why or why you should write a book or like, also like you’re a story game. But even though the kind of the guy was kind of the two was hesitant to be like, okay, all everyone’s going to be free is like, shit.

00:42:51:03 – 00:43:23:11 Unknown It was was just hesitant to run with it. You know? I think we receive compliments and validation in all different areas of our lives, right? And what people do with that kind of validation is also very curious to me because, you know, like there are some students that I’ve had in my life where I will say, yeah, you’re you’re great at writing or This is really good.

00:43:23:13 – 00:43:56:08 Unknown You do this very well, and then they’ll go off and, you know, do something else that other people praise them for. And so, like, it really is up to the person to look at what they’re being celebrated and choose which one they’re going to use in their life as they move forward. And so, you know, I’m wondering, like, what is your earliest memory of writing?

00:43:56:10 – 00:44:27:10 Unknown I guess it was like I was a kid. My my handwriting was terrible as a kid. The Politico would be sitting there like the game, writing workbooks, just trying to get better at it. It was just my it was not exactly trying to write scripts. My handwriting was not to the point where it’s like I need to validate and just like, went straight writing for normal.

00:44:27:12 – 00:45:24:23 Unknown Like normal, like I don’t. Yeah, I know what’s missing. Signature should be in script, but it was sitting and sitting at the table, like with the handwriting workbooks attempting to learn. Had to write scripts and not really, not, not actively working. Those were really working out so well. Yeah. I, you know in, in the questionnaire on Callan Lee I asked about, you know, what are some existing problems and challenges that you know about education that interests you most.

00:45:24:23 – 00:46:00:14 Unknown And you wrote student assessment you said as grades alone only provide a small glimpse into what someone is truly capable of. And I was wondering if you can share a story or a memory or a triumph of yours where you felt like, you know, student assessment was lacking. Yeah. So back to the data that I got. So they found out that I actually feel better that they were not that I was a poet.

00:46:00:14 – 00:46:31:21 Unknown Like I don’t remember, like, how well they did on that. I don’t know. They thought it was a grade or any kind on that assignment. It was just like those words, like, still, you was just like, okay, there’s something more here than just merely schooling to school. Like, more than just the report card that I have something. I have something here.

00:46:31:23 – 00:47:03:22 Unknown Yeah. So it wasn’t a grade. It wasn’t you know, it wasn’t that the teacher was comparing you against your peers. It was that your teacher told you, Hey, Oswald, there’s a there’s a gift here. There’s a clue here of what you’re good at. And it was something that you could take away and it was kind of a seed that got your brain thinking, Hey, what can I do with this?

00:47:03:22 – 00:47:48:20 Unknown That, you know, it’s not about grades and being measured against our peers, but it’s insightful. It’s about building self-awareness and building confidence. Right. And showing like, Hey, here’s an avenue for you to explore. That’s it. That’s it, I think is morally at more the avenues to explore than just merely like being judged by just the the numbers. The numbers, the grades were the diploma with the diplomas on the wall.

00:47:48:22 – 00:48:27:01 Unknown Yeah. And I think it speaks to the importance of celebrating our gifts and talents, knowing what you do now about what you excelled in, what you enjoyed, what your interests were, what you received validation for, and the hopes and aspirations that you did get from your parents and your teachers. How do you think your compulsory education experience could have been changed?

00:48:27:03 – 00:49:04:02 Unknown How would you change it to have made those avenues clearer sooner for you maybe to serve as being kind of oblivious? Like everything like me really paid more attention, like kick in the head? Because like once I saw that in the paper, I’m like, actually my mind went to like, how the what? Like, what is she talking about?

00:49:04:02 – 00:50:01:23 Unknown I was just silly. I didn’t know what to make of it. Just silly or it’s like you may and I honestly didn’t know what to make of like make of it. This just maybe like I would have gotten a little bit more like, bit more gone in a bit more on what I had on my gifts sooner. Instead of just like dragging it out through college, through like the post-college years to the point where, like, I would like, get some only in the last four years didn’t eventually realize that like what I had the what I had like fully or fully came to fruition was just only within, not only in the midst in the

00:50:01:23 – 00:50:54:09 Unknown aftermath of the pandemic, you know, eventually realized that I had would have had all this time that’s beginning to finally come to life. Yeah, for sure. So I guess, like the last thing I want to ask you is if you can make one change to the education system so that anybody, any child may not have had to go through some of the struggles that you might have gone through, what change would you make?

00:50:54:11 – 00:51:23:22 Unknown So can the faculty just to help the child explore like explore the avenues for the things that they’re good at earlier in life? Like instead of like having to wait until like in this case, like the well of school age and like having to go through and take the long and winding road to get to what to the things that they want to do with their lives.

00:51:23:24 – 00:52:03:02 Unknown It could should be the felt process should the process should start a lot sooner than it does 100%. I totally agree. Do you have any last words or any thoughts that we didn’t go through that you wanted to share? I would just say this to to embrace who you like, embrace who you are, fully embrace who you are on what.

00:52:03:04 – 00:52:43:20 Unknown Like it’s easy to like everybody. So all the down the detractors like shape the narrative of who you really are. Like in the end it’s you yourself fairly she gets the shape is telling the story it’s the shape as they see fit. It’s no one else’s story to tell. So just some grace and grace. Every inch of who you who you are.

00:52:43:22 – 00:53:13:09 Unknown You know, I see this and even I have trouble at times living up to that. And I’m also see that it’s okay that if it’s okay to have moments of doubt, worry, fearing that it’s okay to have those moments, to thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes.

00:53:13:11 – 00:53:14:07 Unknown Until next time.