How might we measure the success of students on their ability to collaborate with others?

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00:00:00:02 – 00:00:20:18 Speaker 1 One memory that sticks out a lot was when I was in kindergarten, and I remember we were coloring. I think it was like a kangaroo picture. I have a very vivid memory of it, so I was like coloring it in with the brown crayon. And I remember the teacher came over to me and scolded me for coloring wrong.

00:00:20:18 – 00:00:28:23 Speaker 2 Wait, hold on. So what? So, according to this teacher, what was the proper way to color?

00:00:29:00 – 00:00:54:11 Speaker 1 I think she was saying, like I should color in one direction, like left to right, left to right, Brush this, like, in different directions. But I was thinking the lines. It’s not like I was coloring outside the lines, which, of course, doesn’t matter. You’re a kindergartner. But I feel like that moment illustrates a lot about, like, the education system versus the student.

00:00:54:12 – 00:01:15:22 Speaker 1 Like, they’re trying to control you, you know, in something that should be very subjective. And like, it was a very you know, she was like authoritarian about it. But yeah, I just I knew that it wasn’t right. Like, I think my instinct was, you can’t tell me how to color. So that kind of tells you a lot about me.

00:01:16:00 – 00:01:27:22 Speaker 1 I don’t know if that was just like genetics or my mom, but I definitely just had that feeling like, Yeah, I’m not going to listen to you. Like, you can’t tell me how to color.

00:01:28:00 – 00:01:52:12 Speaker 2 That’s really interesting that you had that like instinct to kind of fight back and have those internal boundaries. Because I know when I was that young, I did not have those kinds of boundaries. And so I am really fascinated by by this story, because, you know, I had always thought, oh, it was my Korean culture, my Asian identity or my Asian culture, Right.

00:01:52:14 – 00:02:11:03 Speaker 2 But your Asian. And so I you know, maybe it wasn’t an Asian thing like maybe it was something different. What do you think it was that allowed you to have that empowered agency from such a young age?

00:02:11:05 – 00:02:26:14 Speaker 1 It’s hard to say, you know, because I actually didn’t say that out loud to her. It was just in my head that I was just like, You can’t tell me how to color. You know, it’s not like I had that confidence to be like to say it out loud. And I was a very obedient kid. I felt like.

00:02:26:16 – 00:02:53:06 Speaker 1 So it must have been. It’s hard to say. You know, But, I mean, definitely that was my mom’s spirit. Like both of my parents, you know, they were like third generation Japanese-Americans and they were kind of hippies. And I know them, you know, as they were young. So it must have somehow seeped into me like, I don’t know if they explicitly told me those things.

00:02:53:08 – 00:03:12:05 Speaker 1 But also, I think my mom was complaining about that teacher. I don’t know if she could she if I overheard it, but I know that she wasn’t too happy with that teacher. And so maybe like that also maybe not have made me not have as much respect for her.

00:03:12:07 – 00:03:57:12 Speaker 2 Oh, that’s a really good. Yeah, that’s a good memory, because I know definitely that this might be kind of jumping around in chronology, but, you know, because we went to elementary school together. I remember when I met like we met you as an adult, you sort of were going back to finding your creative voice and your creativity and, you know, looking to be less, I guess, you know, left brain and sort of come back to your intuitive center.

00:03:57:14 – 00:04:08:09 Speaker 2 Can you talk about what happened along? You know, your education journey that sort of told you that you need to deviate from the creative path?

00:04:08:11 – 00:04:42:19 Speaker 1 I feel like throughout my education experience, um, it’s like they’re always trying to put you in a box. You know, I felt like you had to have a linear path. So I tried to carry that instinct with me, I think throughout my throughout school, and I gravitated more towards like the liberal arts, more towards English and literature, because I liked the fact that you had freedom, you know, where they would say, Hey, tell us a story about your weekend or your summer vacation.

00:04:42:21 – 00:05:13:16 Speaker 1 Those were the types of assignments in elementary school, and I really didn’t really like math or things like that where it’s like one way to do things. You know, I felt very trapped by that. And so but I think that pathway just got more narrow as I went through school. I felt like the options weren’t that big. I didn’t have like a ton of role models who were in the creative fields, and I feel like there weren’t even that the amount of creative fields that exist today.

00:05:13:18 – 00:05:44:04 Speaker 1 So I kind of just like stuck with writing because it was something I was validated for throughout school. Mm hmm. I think I definitely, like kind of became a not like a pawn, but I became like the model student. And it didn’t necessarily leave me lead me into satisfaction. And it also didn’t prepare me for the real world, you know, because I guess when you’re in school, it’s like you kind of believe that it’s more of a meritocracy.

00:05:44:04 – 00:06:11:23 Speaker 1 They train you to believe that way, and it’s even less so about when you get out into the real world. And I think for me, it just created a lot of anxiety. I mean, that whole like growth versus fixed mindset, like, I was praised for being intelligent and it put me in my head a lot and I always felt like I had to overperform and like not show how much work I was actually doing.

00:06:12:01 – 00:06:39:14 Speaker 1 So it did lead to a lot of imposter syndrome and, you know, it wasn’t until I got out of school and I kind of burnt out on school and all the performance that was involved and that kind of like validation seeking that I ultimately, especially in college, I started to feel like really burnt out on, on school and feeling like it was very meaningless and that I couldn’t it wasn’t sustainable.

00:06:39:14 – 00:07:10:18 Speaker 1 Like I couldn’t keep operating in the same way that I finally, like, got more in touch with myself and like my emotions and all of that. And that’s why I’m stressing like that. It’s important to try to involve like the whole student, you know, it shouldn’t all just be like these mental theoretical exercises. Like, especially as I went into college and I’m studying literature that doesn’t reflect me, but it’s like super ancient that has to be translated, you know?

00:07:10:18 – 00:07:49:13 Speaker 1 It just felt like, what’s the point of this? I mean, what am I really learning from this? I would have preferred to go back to elementary school and just, you know, have had more freedom in terms of self-expression. So I think the more that, yeah, we can involve like the student and what they might be experiencing, because especially in middle school and high school, like you’re going through so many changes, there’s probably so much trauma that’s been happening at that time, whether it’s bullying or at home or, you know, I mean, I definitely felt the pressure of like wanting to be perfect.

00:07:49:13 – 00:08:13:09 Speaker 1 You know, it’s not like I was some rebel that was just like, I’m going to do what I want. And you know, that I had such confidence in my own, like creative instinct or anything. But I think like my major choices, I would kind of try to move in that direction. But then I feel like I had the very common anxieties that, you know, a lot of Asian kids have, which is like, I have to be perfect.

00:08:13:09 – 00:08:49:16 Speaker 1 I had to be a perfect daughter. I have to look the perfect way. I have to get the best grades and go to impressive college. Definitely. I still had all of that. And again, it wasn’t like my parents explicitly put that pressure on me. It was just in the I don’t know, it was in the air, right? You could just absorb it somehow and I think the more that yeah, like as teachers you can recognize that in your students and try to be that source of empathy for them as well is just as important as like teaching those skills.

00:08:49:18 – 00:09:12:18 Speaker 1 I mean, you know, obviously when you’re young, like you want to learn how to read and all of that, but as you get older, those are really formidable years to make an impression on a kid. And those kids that get, you know, are seen as the bad kids, they don’t get the support they need and no one recognizes them.

00:09:12:20 – 00:09:40:16 Speaker 1 It can be terrible for not only that kid, but like society, because they could end up being one of those people that that causes a lot of damage, you know, So I think the more that we recognize that responsibility that the education system has and like to actually be more responsible with it, you know, is going to make a difference.

00:09:40:16 – 00:10:06:11 Speaker 1 Because I felt like I didn’t have that type of guidance, like we’re all in our thirties now and going to therapy, paying for it out of our own pocket, like it would be nice if we had those resources while we were going through the thing, you know. So I think even having resources beyond the teachers, like having more counselors in there have just more support in all the different ways.

00:10:06:13 – 00:10:46:03 Speaker 2 100%. And so there’s something that you said to me a decade ago, which was it was one of your professors, I think it was like a sociology professor. And he he told you or he told the class, you know, that the fish don’t see the water and that essentially, if we’re to translate that to humans, like we don’t actually see the air, we don’t see like all of those forces are sort of invisible, the things that are pushing us, things that are pulling us.

00:10:46:05 – 00:11:18:20 Speaker 2 And, you know, it’s very difficult to unravel all of those puppet strings and see what is actually animating us, what is actually bringing us along. And so with that image in mind, I’m really curious about that air. And so I’m wondering what was it, do you think, about you and your unique environment and culturing and influences that contributed to that?

00:11:18:20 – 00:11:53:06 Speaker 1 Air Yeah, So I mean, I think a lot of this I have more clarity on in hindsight. I kind of almost think our education system does indoctrinate us in so many ways that we’re not aware of as young people. And it’s designed that way. So I feel like I was like a model student growing up, and I tried to do everything to a tee, you know, for the validation of my teachers and to get that positive feedback. And then I feel like, you know, now in my thirties and onward, it’s like this process of unlearning a lot of things or like reteaching myself, you know, the truth about things. And so as I learn more about my ancestral line and that history about Asian-Americans in this country, the model minority myth, all of those things, it does start to piece of the puzzle together a little bit. You know, when I think of the type of trauma that my ancestors had in this country, many Asian immigrants had where they were always in fear of looking like the alien, their lives were endangered. They were forced to assimilate, you know, because there is a lot of that Yellow Peril myth going on where at any time they could think you’re a spy, you know, depending on the political climate and that a lot of that, you know, was a big system of oppression, obviously like the model minority piece of it, but that it does get passed down, you know, that there is just this fear that comes from your grandparents and then your parents that maybe you don’t fully belong and you can’t fully feel worthy of expression and things like that. You have to be on your best behavior because, you know, that wasn’t the personality of my parents. But I’m sure that that, you know, they had that influence from their parents so that, you know, I’ve just been having a lot more awareness about those types of influences. And, you know, I really have tried to be like a lifelong learner and do the research.

And I know we’ve had so many conversations about the education system and how a lot of the model now was built for a world that doesn’t exist anymore. You know, it was built for like that industrial revolution period where they wanted to train students to be very obedient and to work within a structure.

00:13:59:07 – 00:14:26:01 Speaker 1 And, you know, you get the right answer, you’re rewarded. And now we’re living in a completely different world where a lot of luckily we had some of that experience in our elementary school education to teach about critical thinking and creative thinking that those are actually the better assets in the in the time we’re living in now. Obviously, we see everything in the media.

00:14:26:01 – 00:15:09:03 Speaker 1 You can’t trust anything. You can’t trust any people of authority and you realize how much propaganda is out there that we just absorbed, as you know, as young people. And I do think it’s our duty, like as we get older to continue to educate ourselves about the truth of those things. And if we’re on kind of like a personal journey to try to find freedom, which I’ve always been, it’s it’s trying to break some of those cycles that you of trauma that you’ve inherited from, you know, your ancestors, you know, just easy stuff like that.

00:15:09:05 – 00:16:00:01 Speaker 2 Have you read or seen anything by Dr. Gabor Maté Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I recently saw like some clip on Instagram where he’s talking about how like women are more susceptible to auto immune diseases because of all of the expectations placed on them by society and another thing is this idea of like gene expression, right? Like so Yuval Noah Harari, like said in some talk a while back where he said that everything that our ancestors learn get passed down in our blood.

00:16:00:03 – 00:16:27:23 Speaker 2 Right? And that is sort of like where our instincts come from. That’s and so it’s like everything that our ancestors learned and everything they’ve endured, right, gets passed down. And if we’re thinking and like thinking about intergenerational trauma, like that’s how it gets passed out, not just through the nurture of like you know, patterns repeating and, you know, lack of education or resources.

00:16:28:04 – 00:17:08:01 Speaker 2 But also through that same data in like our bodies, right. Telling us what kind of trauma that our ancestors, our family, our bloodline has like endured and how that sort of informs how we live our own lives and like the anxieties that we have and so I think what you’re saying is really, really important to highlight in that it’s not just your lifetime that you inherited these pressures, right?

00:17:08:01 – 00:17:48:05 Speaker 2 It’s through everything that your family and even culture and history, how that has impacted your epigenetics or your your own, your wiring. And something you said kind of struck me because I know your mom was an educator. She was also an educator at the elementary school. We went to, I think after we graduated. I think, yeah. And but I remember she was a she was a figure that was very present during her elementary school experience.

00:17:48:05 – 00:18:37:03 Speaker 2 I remember seeing her very often. And, you know, I think like I was always a little envious. Like to the extent that I could understand envy at that time. And I just remember thinking like, your mom is always there. She really cares about like, you know, what you’re learning. And she has a relationship with the teachers. And, you know, she was such a motherly figure and so loving and kind to, you know, and I just remember thinking, like, how lucky that you were to have had, you know, your mom be there with you very often.

00:18:37:03 – 00:18:57:03 Speaker 2 And I’m wondering, I know you recently lost your mom. And so I’m curious, like how you look back on your time in elementary school with now not having her physically with us.

00:18:57:05 – 00:19:46:10 Speaker 1 But yeah, I mean, her impact on that school is like very long lasting. Yes. We just had her memorial service and, you know, over 400 people showed up and a lot of them were from our elementary school experience. And so I really look back and think my whole experience in school was extremely privileged because I had a parent who was an educator or who was connected into this community of kind of like progressive thinkers like within that space, and that she knew how to navigate the system and she knew how to make sure, you know, we had enough magnet points or something to make sure we were getting into the best programs within, you know,

00:19:46:15 – 00:20:20:13 Speaker 1 middle school, high school. And I was actually even in middle school, part of a pilot program as well called the Peace Institute. And it was like a multicultural program. So so I was just very lucky in that respect. And I know, you know, my experiences and the average experience and I saw the disparity, like even in my high school, you know, I was in the magnet program and I would sometimes like if I had a quote unquote regular class, you know, for help or something.

00:20:20:13 – 00:20:45:02 Speaker 1 I really saw the disparity, like in terms of support and all of those things. So I really think my mom for that and that she was the type of she was like an amazing educator. She she taught kindergarten and first grade. But to me, like she taught in a way that would serve, you know, the wider educational system.

00:20:45:04 – 00:21:19:19 Speaker 1 I mean, she would do things like writing with your poet’s eyes where she would put an object on the table and all the kids would try to see the object through their poets eyes and, you know, and write about it. And to me, that’s that’s the most effective way to educate kids and young people is to create experiences and to give them, you know, help them build those skills and discover things within themselves that they’ll take away, you know, the way of like rote learning and memorizing things.

00:21:19:19 – 00:21:39:12 Speaker 1 I mean, I got plenty of A’s in those types of classes, and I don’t remember anything, you know, the classes that I take away or things like that sociology class where he would have us do different experiments, where we challenged social norms and it reawakened, you know, it can change you, you know, in the same way that my mom taught.

00:21:39:14 – 00:22:24:04 Speaker 1 And I know we had experiences through our elementary school of working in groups and being in different commissions. I remember we built a city by hand, like out of recycled materials. Those things were the most fun. And they teach you the most, I mean, from what you take away, right? So I think, yeah, I was given a big gift by being able to have that experience and then having parents that really, like, advocated for me and supported me because even when I didn’t fully appreciate it, when I was like in middle school or high school, if there was a problem with the teacher because there was a few times where I was accused of plagiarism

00:22:24:06 – 00:22:42:21 Speaker 1 when I did not plagiarize, they just, you know, they were like, Oh, this kid couldn’t have written this or whatever. And my mom would go in there and like, really advocate for me to the point where that teacher would, like, turn around and change. And then all the kids would be thanking me because of what my mom did.

00:22:42:23 – 00:23:02:14 Speaker 1 So, I mean, you know, on one hand, it seemed embarrassing at the time, but that yeah, that I had role models that would challenge authority, that weren’t afraid. You know, they didn’t just blindly accept what the teacher said. I have a feeling if I went to them with a problem, you know, from school, that they would believe me as their child.

00:23:02:17 – 00:23:27:16 Speaker 1 And I think that’s that’s also very important, especially when kids are so young and there’s such a, you know, disparity gap in power between them and their teachers. And and a lot of parents will just side with the teacher. Right. But I think it’s really important to listen to kids and everything. So, yeah, I’m really lucky in that way.

00:23:27:18 – 00:23:53:14 Speaker 2 Yeah. You talked about, you know, the city building and one of our classes and I think that was like third or fourth grade in yellow cluster, right? And I, I, I talk about this experience to a lot of people at least a couple times a year. And every time I try to explain it, I met with these, like what?

00:23:53:16 – 00:24:20:14 Speaker 2 Like what did you do? Kind of eyes. And I just remember like in the mornings we worked on our workbooks and had some sort of differentiated learning. You know, any time certain students had problems, they would pull similar problem people together and like, go over, okay, this is not how you do this. This is actually the better way.

00:24:20:16 – 00:24:58:05 Speaker 2 And I remember that was sort of like what happened in the morning. It was like sort of independent your own pace with these workbooks. And then in the afternoons we had these huge year long projects that we would create with our peers, with our teachers facilitation. And I remember in Yellow Cluster, like we were building this city out of recycled materials and all, so we were given roles within the city.

00:24:58:06 – 00:25:19:22 Speaker 2 I don’t know what your role was, but mine was city attorney and I felt deeply inferior because any time there was a problem and the teachers would tell them to come to me, I would be like, What do I do with this problem? I don’t I don’t even understand the problem that you guys are having. And the teachers would try to help me.

00:25:20:00 – 00:25:24:15 Speaker 2 I was a terrible city attorney, you know, I couldn’t even hold my own.

00:25:24:17 – 00:25:46:12 Speaker 1 That’s hilarious. But yeah, like, that collaborative aspect is so important. You know, like we talk about all the time, like how individualistic the educational system is and how it puts kids together, you know, up against each other. And especially when you’re young, like you don’t know how to do anything, you don’t know how to read, you don’t know how to do anything.

00:25:46:14 – 00:26:14:08 Speaker 1 And learning is all about trying and making mistakes. But the environment doesn’t foster that because it shames you and punishes you. Any time you make a mistake and it just doesn’t prepare you for the real world. I think that’s where kids really lose interest in education, you know? So I think, yeah, I mean, we’re a testament to that because we we went through it and looking back on our life, those are the things that taught us the most.

00:26:14:08 – 00:26:16:21 Speaker 1 And you know, that stick out. So.

00:26:17:00 – 00:27:16:13 Speaker 2 Right, right. And they were very, very like I remember my childhood, like in that school more than I do middle school, more than I do high school, like many parts of high school. And I do agree that that it’s because we were put in situations that mimicked real life, you know, And I think like projects, project based activities are so much more important because I feel like in this day and age in our age of like so much political division, so much everything bad, you know, so much war, so much heartache, all of that, We do need people to be able to come together and speak this common language of collaborate, action and empathy and

00:27:16:13 – 00:27:45:12 Speaker 2 problem solving together to get to the other side of what benefits the community, not just the individual. And so you’re talking about like, you know, we were really able to learn that in school in our in our elementary school because it was so student led, it was so project based. And we were able to apply what we learned on a daily basis.

00:27:45:14 – 00:28:00:13 Speaker 2 And we those were like very far reaching skills. What do you think that we can take from our elementary experience and do better in the school system?

00:28:00:15 – 00:28:39:10 Speaker 1 I mean, I think number one is what you mentioned, that,

you know, kids and young people spend the majority of their time in school. And so is that time really the best to use this teaching to a standardized test? Because you’re actually like one of the major influences in these kids lives during like very important developmental years. And so I guess for me as like being more of an adult now and looking back, I’m like, I wish I was taught more life skills. You know, I wish a lot of people say, Oh, that’s the parent’s job. But again, it’s like that responsibility of I mean, the kids are there for the majority of their days. And so whatever information is being put it onto them. And I feel like in this age of like social media and all the pressures that kids have that we didn’t have growing up, you know, it can be very dangerous. Like if you don’t teach children how to think critically and not blindly trust, you know, authority figures in their lives. I mean, we’re clearly seeing that now, how dangerous that can be. And so I think the system as a whole needs to change like preview school. You know, it’s like all the incentives are wrong. Like they’re probably being incentivized. You know, if they have the highest test scores and things like that. But the research is already out there. I don’t know if it was the excellent sheet book or one of the books that we both read that just proved that. Yeah. And I sat score. It has no bearing on like how well you’re going to do in life, but I think they were actually experimenting with other modes of quote unquote testing. You know, kids. That would be a better assessment. And it’s something like, hey, here’s this couch, like find a way to get someone to help you move it. Right? It’s those real life skills, the collaborative skills. Everyone needs that in the workplace. You know, I know plenty of academic people that have no social skills and can’t really operate outside of the ivory tower of the educational system, you know.

00:30:17:08 – 00:30:45:06 Speaker 1 So, yeah, so I mean, in terms of making it sustainable, like it’s like the incentives and the way that schools are funded and the way that, you know, the college admissions process is needs to change. And of course, like the more that I’ve educated about myself, about that, like it’s all rooted in systemic racism and all the isms that we have.

00:30:45:07 – 00:31:17:06 Speaker 1 And so it’s not a fair playing ground, you know, there are different privileges. I’ve definitely had certain privileges within the system, but I just think the more that we can teach kids how to be better human beings and to, like, equip them with skills that will help them to navigate the world that is constantly changing, like this old mode of just teaching the standardized tests is so it’s such a waste of time like it does really pissed me off, you know?

00:31:17:06 – 00:31:46:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, 100%. You know, earlier you were talking about how you did feel like that you had kind of a privileged education and that, you know, your mom knew what to do to get you into the next bracket and help you get through. And, you know, I just think, you know, I almost barely scraped by. And for a long time I felt like a significant failure.

00:31:46:07 – 00:32:13:17 Speaker 2 And I was just thinking, you know, I definitely first generation born and raised in the States. And, you know, my mother didn’t really have a handle on how to survive in in in that country. And, you know, she was a single mom and we were poor and we didn’t have a lot of connections or access to resources and things like that.

00:32:13:17 – 00:32:44:09 Speaker 2 So I definitely would be on the opposite of that spectrum. You know, I don’t I’m just wondering, what do you think we can do as a society and at schools or outside of schools to help people who may not be as advantaged, to have the opportunities that maybe we had when we were younger and to be able to help them follow through on that?

00:32:44:11 – 00:33:08:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, that’s a huge question. It would just be dismantling, you know, systemic racism and all of that because, you know, I think we both and number one, I think it is a failure of education system that they made you feel like a failure because I think you’re one of the most intelligent, like, proactive learners that I know you are.

00:33:09:00 – 00:33:49:06 Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, gosh. You know, you you might think in a different way, but that’s that’s the whole importance of just not having a cookie cutter mode of success in schools and unfortunately, a lot of these standardized testing, the way that college admissions are structured, it’s all rooted in like a lot of systemic. You can all you know, all the the disparities that exist, the whole reason we have extracurricular activities as a part of the college admissions system is because only the privileged, you know, white people at the time could afford to do lacrosse or whatever else.

00:33:49:06 – 00:34:18:00 Speaker 1 And so this was a lot of these measures are not objective measures to really genuinely help, you know, students. They’re not genuine measures of success. A lot of times they’re actually systems of oppression. So, I mean, your question is like that. That would have to be you know, we’d have to change the whole world because that’s just that’s the world that we live in.

00:34:18:02 – 00:34:43:21 Speaker 1 But I think whoever can take these concepts and implement them, it just it’s really unfortunate because it’s like a trickle down effect, right? I think a lot of the school’s funding, it comes from that city. So I know, you know, in Los Angeles, a lot of people have to kind of like strategize about maybe using a different address for this and that in order to get into the quote unquote, good school.

00:34:43:23 – 00:35:13:16 Speaker 1 Right. So there’s so many layers that keep this thing in place and there’s reasons why. And so, you know, there’s some amazing, amazing educators that I’m sure that you’ve seen, like on social media that are teachers in underprivileged areas and they’re out there and they can maybe only reach so many students in their classroom, but they’re out there producing all of this content for anyone to see, including grown adults.

00:35:13:16 – 00:35:41:08 Speaker 1 You know, I’ve learned a lot from them. So I think, yeah, the more people that have kind of open their mind into doing things the different way and they’re very aware of the realities of the world that we live in. You know, there’s many ways of teaching. You don’t necessarily have to be in a classroom, but if you can just be a truth teller and influence in the space that you are, then that’s the best thing that we can do.

00:35:41:08 – 00:36:03:06 Speaker 1 You know, and I’m sure there’s a ton of inspiring stories of students that went through a lot of struggle. I mean, you’re one of them, you know, you went like the education system failed you in so many ways and that you somehow get out of it and then you can go back and try to, you know, give back to your community.

00:36:03:06 – 00:36:33:03 Speaker 1 So I think it’s just it’s very hard to, quote unquote, change the world. It’s very overwhelming to think, how am I going to dismantle all these systems of oppression. But I think the way that you start is you just start with where you are and inputs you have and you go from there. You know, even if you mentor one other kid or you give one other person an opportunity, you know who looks like you, that that’s where we make a difference is kind of like the grass roots approach.

00:36:33:05 – 00:37:08:11 Speaker 1 And it helps to not feel like very nihilistic about the world, which is very easy to do. I mean, it’s yeah, but like for me, it’s, you know, I’ve connected more with my, my Asian roots, learning more about my ancestry, trying to connect with my community and trying to make more of an impact on that level. And I think if we all try to do that, then it’ll make a huge difference collectively, doesn’t have to be, you know, some big grand thing.

00:37:08:13 – 00:37:13:01 Speaker 1 You can make a difference just on your own in your daily life. I.