Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Phyllis, a personal branding strategist, writer, and coach about her young adulthood, first marriage, as well as her parenting journey of raising and homeschooling a teenage daughter. She shares about some of the challenging experiences she lived through as a young woman struggling with her worth, as well as what she had to learn in order to know that she was enough. We also discuss her thoughts and hopes about the future of how we educate our young people.
I’d like to warn and mention that this conversation contains potentially triggering content including mentions of abuse and sexual assault, and also curse words. That prefaced, here is our edited conversation.
Computer-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:03 – 00:00:29:10
Rée
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies.
00:00:29:12 – 00:00:57:04
Rée
I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems.
00:00:57:06 – 00:01:23:09
Rée
To rethink what schools can be, what it should be. When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers, with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Phyllis, a personal branding strategist, writer, and coach, about her young adulthood, first marriage, as well as her parenting journey of raising and homeschooling a teenage daughter.
00:01:23:11 – 00:01:54:20
Rée
She shares about some of the challenging experiences she lived through as a young woman, struggling with her worth, as well as what she had to learn in order to know that she was enough. We also discussed her thoughts and hopes about the future of how we educate our young people going forward. I’d like to warn and mention that this conversation contains potentially triggering content, including mentions of abuse and sexual assault, and also curse words that prefaced.
00:01:54:23 – 00:01:59:01
Rée
Here is our edited conversation.
00:01:59:03 – 00:02:23:06
Phyllis
Clay was stubborn, quiet and surly. That’s the best way I can describe myself. And I’ve always been that kid that I didn’t need a whole lot of people around me. I didn’t know anything about being an introvert or whatever, but I don’t like people a whole lot. I love people in a sense that you know what, they have value, but I don’t need a whole lot of people around me.
00:02:23:06 – 00:02:46:16
Phyllis
So I was like a surly ass kid. I was kind of mean. But it wasn’t intentional. And my parents were the dichotomy of crazy. My parents separated when my when I was about five, so I was grateful for that because at that time, my father was abusive and but he he was an amazing dad, as bad as he was as a husband.
00:02:46:16 – 00:03:09:06
Phyllis
He was an amazing father. And my mom, she was straight up country church, raised all of that kind of thing. And my dad was like, left home at 17, hit the streets when the clubs rolled around, did all of it. So it was just how the hell did you guys get together? But they both they both instilled different things in me.
00:03:09:08 – 00:03:31:16
Phyllis
But there was also a lot of dysfunction in it, and it’s I know as I got older and as I matured, I think it made me a better person. But at the time and growing up, I suffered with all kind of insecurities and identity issues and all of that kind of stuff. But I know if not who I was, then I wouldn’t be who I am now.
00:03:31:20 – 00:03:33:21
Phyllis
So I’m kind of grateful for the crazy.
00:03:33:23 – 00:03:57:21
Rée
I hear sometimes. Like, you have to go through, a lot of you have to go through a lot of fire in order to be to develop a certain type of character. And, I feel like that’s kind of what you’re saying. It’s like there was a lot of dysfunction. There was a lot of questioning, a lot of hardship.
00:03:57:23 – 00:04:29:04
Rée
But it made you who you are today. And I’m wondering, like when you say, like, you’re not sure how your parents got together and then, like, and those kinds of things. I’m kind of curious, how that how looking up to them or what kind of lessons or values they instilled in you about, what life is or what it’s supposed to be or what you’re supposed to do in life.
00:04:29:06 – 00:04:51:12
Phyllis
It’s funny because both of my parents have very strong personalities, and I still grew up insecure. And it was I don’t know if it was because of the the abuse early on because, like, my father was physically abusive. So up until my mom actually left him, they still messed around on occasion after she left. But when she left him, it was still.
00:04:51:14 – 00:05:11:22
Phyllis
Is this how men are supposed to treat women? Because this is this is who I look up, look up to as a father. But I did not. I will never have that from a man. But even in making that decision that I will not be physically abused, I allow my body to be physically abused and that I became promiscuous for the wrong reasons.
00:05:12:00 – 00:05:34:22
Phyllis
So it just manifested in a different way. But like my parents, they were like they were so secure in who they were. My mom, even though like, I’m not saying she didn’t buy my dad, but she gave as good as she got. But their their their confidence never melded onto me in a sense that I felt awkward all the time.
00:05:34:22 – 00:05:55:20
Phyllis
And it might be because I came from a big family and I was the tall one. I was the skinny one. I was not me. So there was all these different things I was called, Jolly Green Giant back then, and skinny is Sasquatch. So all of those names were pinned on me, and I carried them for a long time.
00:05:55:22 – 00:06:16:10
Phyllis
And I was very insecure in that, and it’s like, I would. I wouldn’t necessarily start over. But I was always aware of my height. I was always aware of my not knees. And I, I still don’t wear a lot of pants to this day because I hate the way I look in pants, because I’m not me with no hips.
00:06:16:12 – 00:06:38:03
Phyllis
I love a curvy girl. Is this one? Ain’t gonna lie. Curves are different, but is is just all the different things that that you probably could have been. Has someone told you a lot of positive things? I was not those things, but having to work through those things. And back then it was like black holes and talk about therapy.
00:06:38:05 – 00:06:56:12
Phyllis
So it was like you prayed about it. You went through it, you either came out crazy or you came out okay. Then was your choices. That was it. And it took a long time. And I’m talking like maybe into my 30s for me to be okay. What?
00:06:56:13 – 00:07:01:22
Rée
How did you become okay with those insecurities?
00:07:02:00 – 00:07:06:18
Phyllis
And divorced my first husband.
00:07:06:20 – 00:07:07:17
Rée
Oh, that’s a good one.
00:07:07:20 – 00:07:26:06
Phyllis
I got married for the wrong reasons and I had, I had for the longest time. I had always been one of those people that run away from relationships. And it didn’t matter if it was a friendship or a courtship or whatever it was, instead of dealing with confrontation, it’s like I just left. It’s like I’m not dealing with this.
00:07:26:06 – 00:07:51:05
Phyllis
I will never see you again. I would miss you. I would cry over you, but I would never I would just cut people off. And it wasn’t until my first marriage and like, years into my first marriage, we were together for five years. But it wasn’t until years into my marriage and not being happy like I thought I should be happy that I began to voice things because.
00:07:51:10 – 00:08:14:10
Phyllis
But I was just like, you know what? I just want to say anything. Just shut up and ride it out. That’s how what I was used to doing. So I got tired of that shit, and I began to, I began to speak up for myself, and it wasn’t that our relationship was very tumultuous. If anything, there was not enough togetherness.
00:08:14:10 – 00:08:39:04
Phyllis
Sorry. Hell, we thought sometimes using the father was stupid stuff, but it just became this thing of, you know what? I gotta say something. And so by the time I left, I actually tried to date because when I was growing up, I was just sleeping around. I was not dating, let’s be honest. But when, when I decided to date, I became the one day wonder.
00:08:39:06 – 00:08:59:13
Phyllis
It took one day to know that you are that. No, we ain’t doing this again. I was sharing those things with my mom and she’s like, baby, you can’t say that to me. And or you shouldn’t say that on the first day. And mind you, I grew up with women who believed that men were providers. My aunts and my mom and all of them have that mentality that men were providers.
00:08:59:13 – 00:09:16:09
Phyllis
And so you had to to be that woman. You had to be that home at home and that homemaker. And I’m like, no. But yeah. So I became the one day wonder. And I told my mom, I am 40 and I’m too old for bullshit. I haven’t even 40 yet. But still, I’m, oh, I’m damn near 40 and I’m 12.
00:09:16:09 – 00:09:43:01
Phyllis
Bullshit. I’m not doing this. I don’t want to do this. And it just became obvious, obvious to me that I was being treated the way that I accepted being treated. And I had to learn to say, you know what? No, I think I’m good. I’m gonna be all right. And I’ve always been, because I have been able to easily sever relationships before of people I care about.
00:09:43:03 – 00:10:07:08
Phyllis
I don’t give two shits about you, so I can leave whenever I want. And it just it manifested differently. But it took me some time to, to get comfortable with. It’s not. It is. It’s not a, it’s not me, it’s you thing. It was, it was me. It was Army. I do not blame the men who pass through me for what I accepted, because I freely open my legs.
00:10:07:08 – 00:10:26:09
Phyllis
I was never cause it was my own insecurities that made me that way. So I like when people say man or dogs and they’ll take. Well, yes, they took what I offered because I thought my body was all I had to offer. So I don’t blame them. I don’t regret it because again, I had to go through it to be who I am.
00:10:26:11 – 00:10:46:14
Phyllis
But is is understood that through all of it, I had to accept my part in it. And very few people will accept their role in their own undoing. And once I accept that, it’s like, but I don’t have to accept it anymore. I don’t have to tolerate it. I don’t have to put up with it. I don’t have to go into places that make me uncomfortable.
00:10:46:14 – 00:11:03:08
Phyllis
I don’t have to say yes to people who make me uncomfortable. So it was it was that it was getting a divorce. It was happening during the marriage. But it was after that. I was like, you know what? I’m good, I’m good. And I had always been a loner type anyway. So I was like, what am I missing?
00:11:03:10 – 00:11:13:00
Phyllis
I’ve had my I had more than enough men in my life for me and somebody else. So, you know, what am I right? I’m.
00:11:13:01 – 00:11:51:09
Rée
You know, that’s kind of incredible. You know, I think about insecurities and where they come from, and, you know, I’ve been in therapy long enough that I know a lot of these things kind of happen, develop mentally. Way before your prefrontal cortex can mature. And I’m hearing and seeing and realizing that so much of our traumas come from being othered, by saying like, you know, you’re not okay to be who you actually are.
00:11:51:11 – 00:12:28:00
Rée
And when I look at, like, a lot of families, and also the schools that we send our young people to, it’s all about compliance and obedience and, you know, follow ING the status quo. And that’s kind of where a lot of people pleasing comes from. And like trying to earn external praise or love or validation, because that’s how our systems are built, for us to crave and need someone else to tell us that we’re good to validate us.
00:12:28:04 – 00:13:04:01
Rée
Exactly. Yeah. And, yeah, I just find that so problematic. And I wanted to kind of anchor, maybe some stories or memories that you have, from, you know, before your prefrontal cortex had time to mature. I know you said, you know, before your 30s, you were, like, struggling through that. And I was wondering if you can remember any stories of, like, you know, either your caregivers or your teachers kind of.
00:13:04:03 – 00:13:07:01
Rée
Making you believe that.
00:13:07:03 – 00:13:07:14
Phyllis
Yeah.
00:13:07:16 – 00:13:12:09
Rée
Yeah. Okay. That will be our code word for it. Yes, exactly.
00:13:12:11 – 00:13:27:18
Phyllis
Yeah. I didn’t I apologize to anybody who who’s offended by that. I don’t mean anything by it, but is is that’s what I felt like because like you said, my parents were so different. My mom was strict, my dad was like, let her live and let her be wild. And it was like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do?
00:13:27:20 – 00:13:46:19
Phyllis
And I my mom ended up being one of my best friends. Because even back then when we were younger, she was a party type. Her my aunt table had bagels. They would throw parties. That’s when house parties were big and they had the the pink hot pants on and all that kind of stuff, and they were the shit.
00:13:46:21 – 00:14:11:03
Phyllis
And so in, in growing up and with my mom and her sisters and they had brothers, but growing up with my mom and our sisters, they were, I believe, most of them eventually, at some point had an abusive relationship to where they actually became somewhat abusive. And so it became a message of use. A man before he uses you.
00:14:11:05 – 00:14:27:10
Phyllis
I was out one day, like me, and my mom became best friends, that we actually started going to nightclubs together, and it was mostly blues clubs where you go hear singing. And I was used to older men always approaching me. So they I remember there was this guy sitting, that’s me. My mom was on this side and her Aunt Florence is on that side.
00:14:27:12 – 00:14:48:15
Phyllis
And we’re sitting here and we’re listening music. And now just doing my thing and do starts talking to me, and I don’t mind having a conversation. We can talk. And it got to that point where he was trying to get me. And so he said, you know what? I would love to take you out and just buy you things and, and like, do you have furniture in your house?
00:14:48:17 – 00:15:05:13
Phyllis
And I’m like, yeah, I probably need to go give me a washer and dryer. And he’s like, well, I can get you a washer dryer. It might not be new, but I can get you one. And these are the men that my mom and her sisters and everything were used to. And he was offering me things. Say, no, I’m good, mom, I’m settling down.
00:15:05:13 – 00:15:31:05
Phyllis
I said, you better let that man buy you washing your dryer off. Like, seriously, I not I said, I know this man wants to marry her and I invite you. And mind you, I think I was in my maybe mid 20s then and this dude was if my mom is 20 something years older than me, so she, he had to be kicking 40 in the butt somewhere, and he was offering to buy me things.
00:15:31:06 – 00:15:51:15
Phyllis
And that was his way of picking up women. So these women were teaching me that to use a man because he’s supposed to take care of you. And the thing that my mom used to always tell me, because my sister, we had different fathers, my my father’s sister, my sister’s father, I’m sorry. Told my mom, never let a man come to your house empty handed.
00:15:51:17 – 00:16:10:23
Phyllis
And she never forgot that. She said, I don’t care if he brings you a pack of gum, a bottle of soda or glass of wine. What? I never let a man come to your front door empty handed. And that’s something that she always told me. And so when this man. And when she hears this man offering me things, she’s telling me to accept it.
00:16:11:00 – 00:16:33:09
Phyllis
And I’m like. But no. And it is. It’s even like you said, I did go through my whole promiscuous phase, and usually I call it my whole phase. And but I’m seeing why this is a thing. Now, this man I wasn’t particularly interested in, had he been killed, it might have been a thing, but I was not interested.
00:16:33:11 – 00:16:51:20
Phyllis
But it was the dichotomy of sitting here and my mom telling me, yes, and then realizing this is they’re used to this because this is what men offer. Maybe this is their age thing, because when I was approached by younger guys, it’s like they just want to, like, rush into the whole thing. And so one night stands happened and all that kind of stuff.
00:16:51:22 – 00:17:22:05
Phyllis
It is. It’s it makes you. Think about who you are. And so there’s this time of confusion. Like I said, by this time I’m in my 20s. I’ve had my fair share even by then. And it was like, okay, but what do I want? And I never told anybody what I wanted, whether it was sex or no sex, whether what was friendship, companionship, to have an argument and still no, you loved me.
00:17:22:06 – 00:17:47:16
Phyllis
And that I think that was my biggest thing of why I fear confrontation, because watching my parents go at it was like, okay, I see this. There’s still some kind of love there, but I don’t want that kind of love. So if I have confrontations, then how do what am I supposed to do with this? And, and I think that was why it was easier for me to open my legs and open my heart.
00:17:47:18 – 00:18:14:00
Phyllis
Because it’s like if I don’t, if I say no, there’s going to be confrontation. So to avoid the confrontation, let me give him this. And I don’t go on about his business. I don’t even care if he doesn’t come back. I just don’t want the confrontation. And it became this thing. And then I tried to make myself okay with it is like, let me pick them before they pick me, because then I can say, you know what?
00:18:14:00 – 00:18:35:23
Phyllis
I let him go. And so I thought I was flipping the script, but it was still my insecurities talking. And my dad, my dad was a total opposite. My dad was he was my best friend before my mom because me and my dad talked about everything and he was such a transparent parent and that he never lied to me about anything.
00:18:35:23 – 00:18:59:01
Phyllis
When he would get vicious about things, about my mom, I understood where that was coming from. So I didn’t really listen to that part. But and telling me how the world was for him and having to realize that this is a man who’s who’s like the I was born during not exactly like maybe three months before the watch.
00:18:59:01 – 00:19:19:16
Phyllis
Why it happened. So they were still coming through. I was yeah, I was 165. So they they were still going through that and we were trying to or they were trying at that time, it was all the black power and the Dashikis and the Black Panthers. And so this is a man who started doing drugs and doing all these different things.
00:19:19:16 – 00:19:40:17
Phyllis
My dad, because he was fighting, had something that he couldn’t really fight. And so since he couldn’t fight over here in this job that he had, or with the white folks that he was keeping him down, he came home and he took it out on my mom, and then he took it out on the drugs, and then it took it out on all these other things in his life.
00:19:40:23 – 00:20:04:05
Phyllis
And he never hit any of that for me. He’s like, don’t be me. You’re better than me. Get a job, get an education. If this is my fight, this doesn’t have to be your fight. I’m fighting this right now so you don’t have to fight it later. But we still fight the same fight just in different ways. It’s like we think we’re far removed, but I have I have a 16 year old daughter.
00:20:04:05 – 00:20:25:06
Phyllis
I had my daughter when I was 42. So it’s it’s even in talking to her, it’s like these are your fights that are coming down the line, and these are the fights to scare me and being honest about it. And my dad gave me that ability because my mom, we didn’t talk about style, we didn’t talk about sex, we talked about menstruation.
00:20:25:06 – 00:20:43:17
Phyllis
We didn’t talk about boys. All of us. That’s nasty. Don’t be bumping uglies in it. It was those kind of conversations, having my first cycle and my mom to my girl, you just, I mean, stupid. You just started your period. That was a conversation I had that I’m thinking. I’m thinking my who has fallen out, and that’s what I get.
00:20:43:17 – 00:21:06:01
Phyllis
I mean, I remember I was at my aunt’s house in the bathroom, bleeding and scared to come out because I didn’t know what was going on. I thought I did something wrong, and that was my mom’s conversation for me. And it’s it’s there was never anyone to talk to because for them, those were in that conversation that you had.
00:21:06:03 – 00:21:23:18
Phyllis
Those were not things that you talked about. You, Jeff, you talked about and you being what they call fast. Have you ever heard that term? You just be it. There’s no that’s what they call it. You use being fast. You was being hot in the ass, you being hot in the tail because you wanted to have these conversations.
00:21:23:20 – 00:21:51:03
Phyllis
And so, you know what? You were basically you were doing slutty before you even having sex because you wanted to have the conversation, have an understanding. And so I was constantly accused because by, like you said, I was tall and skinny and I was talked about a lot, but guys wanted tall and skinny. So because I was often approached, I was a problem because I was wearing short skirts, I was the problem.
00:21:51:05 – 00:22:23:05
Phyllis
And it was if I grew up in that time where people say, oh, you shouldn’t be wearing that, you’re just asking for it. That’s an open invitation to to this, that and the other. And so I didn’t give any opening invitations the, the, the day I was right, there was no open invitation. My mom and I’m, I lied, I lied for 20 something years about my right because I knew the conversation I would get from my family on my mom’s side.
00:22:23:07 – 00:22:43:13
Phyllis
My father died not knowing I was right because my father was in the house when it happened. The dude had a gun, so I was afraid if I screamed, my father would die. So I lie. The first person I told the truth to, I wrote my book. I wrote a book, that damn girl stuff. And it started.
00:22:43:14 – 00:22:49:09
Phyllis
It was supposed to be funny and it was about conversations. And now I’m jumping all over the place. I’m sorry. No no no no.
00:22:49:09 – 00:22:50:10
Rée
No, please continue.
00:22:50:10 – 00:23:22:10
Phyllis
But it started. It was, it was based is it was supposed to be about conversations I was having with my daughter, about her own journey into young teenage tween stuff, because she was mine at the time. And so I was writing the book. And the more I wrote the book and the funny stories, the more I started telling my own stories of why I’m having these conversations with my daughter, because of that promiscuity, because of the insecurities, because of the things I was taught and making sure that that was not what I left her with.
00:23:22:12 – 00:23:42:23
Phyllis
And because I was writing that book and I thought I finished it, and I said I had to tell her she needs to know because. And it wasn’t that she needed to know because she needs to. I need to spell my guess. My reason for telling my daughter the truth about my rape was because, sweetie, I want you to trust your instincts.
00:23:43:01 – 00:24:08:17
Phyllis
If something does not feel right and you have an opportunity to walk away, walk away? I had opportunity here, so I thought, looking back and I could have done this instead of doing that. But this is what happened. Followed me to my house, pushed me in the house in the dark, pushed me down on the couch. There was a gun to my head.
00:24:08:19 – 00:24:31:23
Phyllis
And I knew your your, your, your grandfather was home and I could not come out. I saw the bedroom window open as I passed it. My dad’s bedroom window was open and I did. At that time, I didn’t know that this was about to happen. And so for years I lied and I said, what did I tell my mom?
00:24:32:01 – 00:24:55:21
Phyllis
I told her, I don’t even know a I told anymore because I finally told the truth, because I knew that it was going to be, well, what were you wearing? Or it was your fault? But my mom actually told me it was my fault. It was not a surprise. It was not earth shattering to me that she would think that it was life.
00:24:55:21 – 00:25:19:19
Phyllis
Okay. But the truth was, this is what happened. I met a guy on the bus that he was nice. We. He said he was getting off at the same stop and offered to walk me on because the street that I lived on at the time, it was a long, dark street, used not to walk me home. But even when I started walking, something did not feel right.
00:25:19:21 – 00:25:49:04
Phyllis
Something told me that it wasn’t right and I did not know what to do because nobody ever talked to me. My dad had taught me self-defense, but I didn’t feel like this was the time for self-defense. And I was like, okay, it’s not so bad. My dad’s home. I’ll be okay when I get home. My dad’s home and I say, shit.
00:25:49:06 – 00:26:16:10
Phyllis
And I never told him that he was in the house, and I never even told him that it happened. He’s the only one that doesn’t know or didn’t know because my father passed a few years ago, but he’s the only one my husband knew. My daughter knew. My mom knew my my whole mom’s side of the family. No, I think if anybody had told my dad and I had to tell them the truth, that he was in there in the bed while this was happening, that would have devastated me.
00:26:16:10 – 00:26:33:09
Phyllis
And I could not do that because my father was very protective. Oh my, my sister. I have a much younger sister. On her first birthday, he was supposed to be coming to the house and some guy did something. Do gets out the car and punches dude in the face. My father had. It was first episode of Road Rage.
00:26:33:09 – 00:26:52:09
Phyllis
I knew before Road Rage was the thing. My father punched a man in the face because me, I was talking shit. But that’s what my dad was. He protected his girls whenever me and my sister, my older sister, were around his friends. He said, these are my daughters. Anyone of y’all touch them, I’m breaking your motherfucking neck.
00:26:52:11 – 00:27:15:09
Phyllis
And he made it very clear he did his girlfriends. You know how some people get confused about. Oh, well, this is my girlfriend. I’m gonna put my kids to the side, but my dad did not play that. These are my daughters before. You are my woman. That was his name. And my my, my, my sister was not his biological child, but she was like, no.
00:27:15:11 – 00:27:47:14
Phyllis
He would fight her dad for him, for her. He was that guy. And so to tell him that he could not protect me, no. My father was, so such a daddy’s girl that if I’m in my 40s and I’m married, my father still slipping me money. He was that guy and stuff, and is is, like I say, is going through all of those different things, those different episodes in my life of my aunt.
00:27:47:14 – 00:28:07:01
Phyllis
My aunt is my second mom. I now help take care of her. She’s bedridden with dementia. So I fly down to California whenever my cousin has to travel for business to go take care of my aunt. And she’s the one probably knows more of my secrets and my mom ever did. My aunt was the one that I kissed all the time.
00:28:07:03 – 00:28:33:04
Phyllis
She was the one I told I love you all the time. I didn’t do that with my mother. I love my mom, but she didn’t give that to me, so I didn’t give it to her. My I would walk in my mom’s house, kiss all over my Amy’s face, say hi to my mom. When I graduated from college, I mean, I didn’t walk because I figured my dad wasn’t wasn’t here.
00:28:33:06 – 00:28:49:07
Phyllis
I think my mom never said anything about my education. My father was the only one who said anything about it. So she’s like, why didn’t you do it? I said, I figured you wouldn’t want to go. Why would you think that? Because you never gave me the impression that you cared. It wasn’t that big a deal to me.
00:28:49:09 – 00:29:13:18
Phyllis
So I didn’t I didn’t go, and I think it was that point that she and I, I mean, we, we have become friends before that. And I finally she seen what she when she died not admitting it, but my sister was her favorite. I knew that, but there was a point where it became that we actually started. I started telling her.
00:29:13:18 – 00:29:32:06
Phyllis
So I still never confessed the rape until after Morgan was born. But I told her a lot of shit that she never knew. I told her why I didn’t tell her I love you, mommy is not something that you ever did. You didn’t hug and kiss on me, Irani. You didn’t. We weren’t. But she always made sure that there was a thing.
00:29:32:06 – 00:29:46:21
Phyllis
There’s a thing in black culture. When we were younger. If you look like you. Shinola damaged your mama, washed you, and put Vaseline all over you. And you were shocked. You know, there were some clean kids.
00:29:46:23 – 00:30:14:19
Phyllis
Behind they were Vaseline. You from head to toe after they took you and washed you up. And that was the thing. That was the thing. And she was that mom. We were always just cute. Me and my sister were 14 months apart, but she just was like, enjoying. And all that kind of stuff. But it was it was never it was never the thing.
00:30:14:21 – 00:30:41:12
Phyllis
The the mom of of hugs and kisses. She was never that mom and I became that daughter for her when I started walking in and kissing her on her forehead and all that kind of stuff and kissing on her neck and being playful with her because she was never that one. Now with my own daughter, Morgan is, oh, God, she’s so fucking.
00:30:41:14 – 00:31:01:00
Phyllis
I love her to pieces, but she’s so clingy sometimes. But that’s her. And so I let her be clingy. She came in the room tonight and she. She asked some the silliest questions, but she’s one of those. She’s 16 years old, but she will walk to the mall holding my hand and she tells me most of our secrets.
00:31:01:00 – 00:31:16:01
Phyllis
I’m pretty sure she still has some left, but it’s like some things I’m like, yes, okay, if you can keep that to yourself, you know, you get notes, right? Her friends, she brags about me and her dad to her friends. I heard her tell somebody they haven’t. I don’t even think she really saw. My parents are happily married.
00:31:16:01 – 00:31:39:18
Phyllis
I’m like, how do you know? But, I think we are. But I never thought that she thought of us that way. She takes selfies with us and, like, put them on whatever she’s on and share with our friends. And it’s like, oh, a mom alert. But none of the other. None of her friends do that for her.
00:31:39:20 – 00:31:57:12
Phyllis
She, like, when one of her friends is freaking out because she got a 960 on our SATs and she’s like, mom, what am I supposed to do? I said, I have no fucking clue because I didn’t raise you to to care about grades and scores, she said. And that’s what I told her. Why? She can take the test again.
00:31:57:12 – 00:32:20:14
Phyllis
Why are you crying? Why are you freaking out? I said, but baby, you have to realize her parents made her care about the 960, so she’s freaking out because now she can’t get into the school that she wants, not realizing. She realizes that there are hundreds of other schools that she can go to, but it’s that one. If she can’t get in that that score is making her cry, I said, so the only thing you can do is say, you know what?
00:32:20:14 – 00:32:36:16
Phyllis
I don’t understand, but I’m here for you. That’s the only thing you can do for her. I said, you you gotta let her cry it out. And you say, what do you want me to do? And she said, I don’t know. I don’t know either. Be honest. My mom told me that I get paid in cash, not in grace.
00:32:36:16 – 00:32:54:08
Phyllis
So she was not I don’t put I never pushed up her grades. Morgan’s been homeschooled since the fourth grade. She actually just graduated this year, and she was supposed to graduate until next year. And it’s just by the grace of God, some things worked out that that happened. Not because she’s extra smart. I think she’s smart, but she’s not extra smart.
00:32:54:10 – 00:33:16:04
Phyllis
But but is it’s. The the different things in her childhood, in my childhood. And like I told her the other night, because I had the office, her, my husband come in here, they sit in the chair and it’s like, okay, what do they want now? Because I’m like, I have not stopped being a loner type. I don’t like a whole lot of.
00:33:16:04 – 00:33:34:03
Phyllis
I just closed the door as often as possible, but they come in and I told her, I said the my I, my work day is such that I never stop being a mom. Even though I’m a workaholic. I never stop being a mom. That’s why when you come in here and tell me something, I stop what I’m doing.
00:33:34:03 – 00:33:51:05
Phyllis
Unless I’m on with the client, I stop and I’m doing, I said, because being a teenager is important, is important to you. So it has to be important to me. And she said, I so appreciate that. And I said, what else am I supposed to do? Because I know it’s hard being 16. I know that especially in the day of technology.
00:33:51:07 – 00:34:16:20
Phyllis
So do you have so much information in your hand or your hair should explore? And so I have to understand that I don’t have to like it. And I have to tolerate I mean, I do tolerate something, but it’s a different world for you. And I would never tell you that I did it when she was younger. I had a bad habit when we’re first starting the business, telling her, give me five more minutes, give me five more minutes.
00:34:16:22 – 00:34:34:12
Phyllis
And five more minutes would turn into an hour. It would turn into a day, and then it would turn into a week. Because I was of the mind that if I didn’t work, we didn’t eat. And so I missed out on a lot. I was never going to be the June Cleaver or or Claire Huxtable type. I was never going to be that.
00:34:34:12 – 00:34:56:15
Phyllis
I’m running out to Disneyland because I don’t want to go. I’m going to need to cultivate you, some artist, to take you to all this other shit, because I don’t want to go. I’m not that mom, but when I came out of that stupidity mode, I’m the mom you can always talk to. You can tell me anything. And I mean that.
00:34:56:17 – 00:35:22:09
Phyllis
And sometimes when she tells me things, I had to keep a straight face. Sometimes I get to lose my shit. When is bad. But, sweetie. Okay, so what do we need to talk about? We talked. We talked about gender. She had to teach me all the appropriate terms and what? Why do I care about polyamorous? Morgan? Well, now there’s Hyram and she tell me, like, seriously, why do you know this?
00:35:22:09 – 00:35:45:03
Phyllis
And I don’t because this is her age. This is what they talk about. This is what they’re concerned about. And it’s it’s we have different views on it. But I said, sweetie, I can respect your opinion without agreeing with it. I said, just like in the same for me. I don’t have to. We had a we had. I made her cry.
00:35:45:03 – 00:36:03:02
Phyllis
I don’t even think it’s an argument. It might have been an argument her. But she came and she asked me what were my pronouns. I’m not playing a game with you, said my mom. Anybody need to know your pronouns? Not everybody does not, I said, like, you feel like you need to know because the world told you that you needed to know.
00:36:03:04 – 00:36:23:17
Phyllis
But my I don’t define people by their pronouns. Sweetie, what’s your name? I don’t give a fuck what your pronouns are because they don’t. That don’t mean nothing to me. Your name means more to me than that, I said. But you want me to sit here and tell you that? And she literally start crying because I will not tell her, but her tears are not going to make me change my mind.
00:36:23:18 – 00:36:41:13
Phyllis
No one that hears this am I get upset about this is going to make me change my mind, sweetie, because I didn’t say I didn’t care about the person. I said I didn’t care about the pronoun if the only way you can get respect is to the pronouns, then there’s something already wrong. That’s not your pronouns is not my problem.
00:36:41:15 – 00:36:58:16
Phyllis
But if there’s something that you. If I’m gonna care about you. I’ma care about you as a person. I don’t care about you because you have a heart for your asshole. I don’t give two shits about you. It has nothing to do with gender pronouns, sex or whatever else is about the person for me. So sweetie, don’t come in here.
00:36:58:16 – 00:37:18:02
Phyllis
Ask me about my pronouns if you want to change yours. I’m telling you, I had a daughter. I will always have a daughter. I will always respect your choices. But I don’t have to agree with them and I don’t have to go along with them. But I will always love you know that my love is not precluded on that.
00:37:18:02 – 00:37:37:20
Phyllis
That’s how you want to live your life. But I will have so much respect for that. But how I choose to engage with this, with you cannot dictate that. I said one of the reasons I gave you the name Morgens, because I thought it was unisex. Because just in case you came out as they told me you were going to be a girl, you came out a boy.
00:37:37:20 – 00:38:06:03
Phyllis
I was still who? How you use that name? That’s up to you. But my love is not precluded on the name that you give yourself. Sometimes she has email and I’ve read the email so many times I call my child Kenny. Sometimes because that’s what her email says. And it’s like, stop. Then I call her tutti fruit. Then I call her, a call a mogul.
00:38:06:05 – 00:38:28:10
Phyllis
So she has all these names and it’s like it’s a name. It’s not who you are. And I know sometimes people’s identities get wrapped up in their name because you, you kind of take on that persona our names become. And my name is probably dying out with my age. Phyllis. So it’s like, what am I going to do?
00:38:28:11 – 00:38:48:05
Phyllis
I’m not going to get that shit to my daughter because I hate having that name missing out there. You know? I said, but I think, I think you can do more of it. And she, she goes back and forth with who she wants to be, how she wants to be. And I’m like, sweetie, you 16. Nobody says you have to make the choice right now.
00:38:48:07 – 00:38:52:08
Phyllis
If you choose to, that’s on you.
00:38:52:10 – 00:38:52:16
Rée
Yeah.
00:38:52:17 – 00:39:11:07
Phyllis
But don’t let somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And especially for somebody who has been homeschooling you have to make leave the house really. So you ain’t even held hands yet who you know who saying you want to hold. Yeah. So I’m, I don’t know why this is a big decision. You know I’m.
00:39:11:07 – 00:39:22:18
Rée
Curious about that. I’m curious about, I’m curious about your decision to homeschool. What was the reason that led to that? For reasons where we lived.
00:39:22:18 – 00:39:43:22
Phyllis
We lived in Long Beach, California at the time, and Morgan had gone. She we homeschool to for kindergarten. Then we sent her to public school, and by third grade, the school was overcrowded. There was an episode where the teacher wouldn’t let her go to the bathroom, so she ended up peeing on herself. And it was just it was too much mess.
00:39:43:22 – 00:40:05:18
Phyllis
Like, you know what? No. So initially it was from overcrowding. Then it became about giving her an education that didn’t just include books. If you have to study art, let’s go to the museum. If you have to study music, let’s go to a concert. Let’s go do these different things. We’re actually tomorrow we’re going to the, Museum of Modern Art.
00:40:05:20 – 00:40:24:18
Phyllis
Because Morgan is a creative. She is not a stand in girl. Please don’t. Yeah, stop putting that on them babies. Not everybody you. I’m about to go off on a tangent. I’ll come back. But this whole stamp thing, it’s like everybody’s child wasn’t made to to be a part of that. But then you’re leaving all these other kids out because you don’t give them an option.
00:40:24:20 – 00:40:54:13
Phyllis
You didn’t come up with the acronym for the the artist in the writers and the poets talk about being inclusive. Y’all kiss my ass. But anyway. But it’s my daughter. My daughter. She’s she’s smart in that she learns what you want to learn. And she can she can learn almost anything, but she doesn’t like it. She’s not do poorly in it just because you know it.
00:40:54:15 – 00:41:11:23
Phyllis
I got in trouble for lying about not finishing the class because I just didn’t want to do it, and she refuses to ask for help. We have had teacher moments where it’s like, why don’t you ask why are you telling you how we can homeschool? How can you mess up in class when you sitting here with your blanket?
00:41:12:01 – 00:41:33:22
Phyllis
And mind you, I don’t question my daughter like this, but I’m talking. Yeah, but it’s like, how can you mess up when you have two parents right here? You can get online with a teacher. And do we need to hire you a tutor? But she refused to ask for help. That’s why I says it’s surprising that she actually graduated a year early, because we finally got on a program that she understood that let her study her way.
00:41:34:00 – 00:41:58:10
Phyllis
So I go, I can do this. And my thing was just pass. She ended up having a B average by the time she finished and in the check is she’s homeschooled, but she is so freaking social. Oh my god, she will. She won’t talk to anybody. She’s more comfortable. Believe it or not. She’s comfortable with kids online, but she is uncomfortable with them in public.
00:41:58:12 – 00:42:18:08
Phyllis
She’s comfortable with with adults in public. She will stand down and have a conversation with an adult in a minute and carry, I mean, like, just comfortable. But she’s just this, this. You introduce her to a kid, but these kids, it’s like, okay, we we we met, we spoke it. Now we’re going to get on our phones and talk to each other.
00:42:18:10 – 00:42:23:20
Phyllis
Like yeah. Well so is is crazy.
00:42:24:01 – 00:42:47:18
Rée
Well yeah. And I think you know that’s kind of incredible that you, you know did that journey right. Because I think in my household or in my family, I think my mother probably would have been, you know, she didn’t really have that option to homeschool. She had she was working multiple jobs. And, you know, she couldn’t physically do that with me.
00:42:47:18 – 00:43:22:02
Rée
And also, like, there was a language barrier, even if she wanted to, I think, you know, that would have been a struggle there. And the cultural differences. But, you know, I think it’s always incredible when I hear people, say, yes, you know, we’re going to make this homeschooling thing work. And it takes a lot of work on your part to not just physically, but also mentally and like how you’re going to set up a curriculum that you are on board with and that your child is on board with.
00:43:22:04 – 00:43:39:21
Rée
It’s really, you know, tricky. And so I’m wondering, like, what was important for you when choosing a curriculum or choosing, you know, a program, right? What was important, for you and for Morgan?
00:43:39:23 – 00:44:03:12
Phyllis
One of the, In the beginning, it was just something that would allow me to work because I work from home. But this time, we had the business open because I quit my job. Morgan was to. Neil had quit his job, I think two years before or something like that. But, because we were working from home, and I had back then, I had my mom until Morgan was ten.
00:44:03:14 – 00:44:21:02
Phyllis
So she she could go over there and do schoolwork. She’d come here and do schoolwork. We can go to the library and do schoolwork. If we’re at the shop because we have restaurants back then, she was at the restaurant. She was doing homework, and I kind of feel bad about that one, but, but there was all these different options.
00:44:21:07 – 00:44:43:15
Phyllis
But then also, when she was ten, we picked up her laptop and we were able to go to London and France, and she did schoolwork. So it offered, so many different things that we would not have been able to do. She at nine, she became a partner in our corporation because we had incorporated the restaurants under, under, umbrella.
00:44:43:17 – 00:44:59:22
Phyllis
And so we gave her 10% in corporation and we helped her understand what that meant. It’s like, okay, now you own 10% of this. We that means the ball falls on you when somebody doesn’t show up for work. Guess who got to get up and go do some things when? When people are acting as if dimple guess you got to put them in line.
00:45:00:02 – 00:45:18:14
Phyllis
She was kind of bossy, you know, we had to like. Yeah, we had the rain ring and she was bossy. We tell her, stop us. Me, she would go draw shit on the on a walk and fridge and go points, like, that’s what I needed to do. So sit your ass down. But she also started her retirement account when she was nine, so she learned how to invest.
00:45:18:14 – 00:45:37:14
Phyllis
We would pick out investments together. I told her to pick the things that she liked. And I will ask her, why do you like this? So her original, her original investment started with, what was it? Microsoft. She started with Microsoft and I think it was because of a game, Minecraft or Roblox or one of those. She got EA.
00:45:37:14 – 00:46:02:21
Phyllis
She eventually sold air. She’s in my she still has Amazon and it has done fantastic for her. She still has Starbucks. She still has Nike, I think. And then she has, a couple of dividend, dividend producing ETFs or something that she chose. And, for a while we would have, like, we would have this competition because we all invested.
00:46:02:21 – 00:46:21:08
Phyllis
So I was like, who’s doing better? Who’s winning this? We it’s like we know it’s all going in the same pot, but it doesn’t matter. I’m winning. But Neil usually won when it came to the dividends. But Morgan, because she had, Microsoft, she was always kicking our ass. So it was just doing things for her. But I will make her read financials.
00:46:21:10 – 00:46:41:17
Phyllis
Just. I just need you to read the the news alert that came out today and tell me what you understand about it. And that became part of her education as well. So those were the things that we were able to incorporate that we wouldn’t have been able to do. Has she stayed in school? She one of the things I instilled in her was your investing, because when you get to 18, you’re going to pull some of that money out.
00:46:41:17 – 00:46:59:09
Phyllis
You’re going to go and buy buy your first investment property. So I want you to go buy a duplex, because you need to live on one side and have income on the other. And I’ve been telling her this for years, and I had to buy me back up because I think it was last year. And I said, Morgan, do you really want to get a duplex?
00:46:59:11 – 00:47:19:13
Phyllis
And she said, I don’t mind, because for a while there she was in a snippy teenage move. I can’t wait till I get out of here. But then I asked her, I said, do you want to move out at 18? She said, well, yes and no. I said, okay, how about if I change my stand? I said, if we get to the point at 18 and you want to get a duplex, you can rent the other side out to me and your dad.
00:47:19:15 – 00:47:33:01
Phyllis
She said, oh, I can do that. And I said, we will pay you rent, but don’t come to my house asking my husband to cook you dinner. When you get over to your house, you’re going to have to learn how to cook. You don’t clean up after yourself. All of that’s on. You don’t come calling my husband daddy and I.
00:47:33:05 – 00:47:49:10
Phyllis
What did you get for dinner? Like, So we we if we, if we do what we’re going to do, and we told her we will be your tenant, I said, but so you can understand. But you’re going to have to get your own property manager. You’re going to have to get your own garden. You’re going to have to learn how to run this.
00:47:49:12 – 00:48:06:20
Phyllis
You just have the security of us being next door instead of us being in the same house. Then what if, when, and if we decide to move out, you’ll know what it means to have a tenant, because you do have to like one of the things when we were, when she was working at the restaurant, it wasn’t.
00:48:06:20 – 00:48:27:00
Phyllis
Mom, mom, can I do this? It was like, Miss Mom, at the very least, is Miss Mom because we’re at work right now, and you’re Miss Morgan. Because I want you to understand the dynamics of our relationship is different here. You don’t get to run to me and do all these things. So she had gotten good at her job because she would like someday she would open in other day.
00:48:27:00 – 00:48:44:12
Phyllis
She would close. And so she again go to your job. So we will leave her there. We’ll do whatever was managing that day and sometimes she would call, mom, can I come home? It’s slow. Why are you calling me? I’m not your boss. I’m not. I’m not supervising you today. Why are you calling me? Well, what am I supposed to do?
00:48:44:12 – 00:48:57:04
Phyllis
You need to ask the person in charge. I’m not in charge. And she’s like, okay. And so she would go back, ask me, Glenn, do you still need me or can I go home?
00:48:57:06 – 00:49:12:15
Phyllis
So some days he would let her go some day. So you didn’t. But you have to learn I’m not the one in charge. This is your job. She learned how to go to the man and make the deposits, get to change her in the morning and all of that kind of stuff. She had been trying to sign checks since she was four.
00:49:12:15 – 00:49:30:19
Phyllis
I’m like, you can’t sign those with a crayon? No, that does not work. But but she got it. She got it. She got an actual physical paycheck on Friday like everybody else. And she took it to the bank. They knew her at the bank. And so I made her checks out the cash. So the only thing that she had to put on the back of our checks was her account number.
00:49:30:21 – 00:49:48:20
Phyllis
And it says deposit only. That’s what you put on the back of your checks. But once you get older, you’re probably going to have to start putting a signature on the back of your checks. I don’t know what kids nowadays since they can’t write cursive, but but you’re going to have to. That’s how you deposit your checks. Do you need cash back because this is your money?
00:49:48:22 – 00:50:13:02
Phyllis
I still will have some control over it, but this is your money. And so when we were going to place a she day, she baller at ten she would whip out a card. I people’s like is that her card came out of her wallet. Yes it is. She would go and she likes you. Let me tell you. One of my friends was offended because they she was hanging out with her daughter and so they I guess they went to lunch or whatever.
00:50:13:02 – 00:50:21:11
Phyllis
And Morgan would side a card like, oh, I’ll pay for dinner. My. Excuse me. What?
00:50:21:13 – 00:50:37:16
Phyllis
She’s like, no, I think I can handle this. But she went in and it wasn’t a slight to her. Morgan was just proud of being able to have her own money and to be able to pay for things. So yeah, my friend was offended. Like I didn’t know how to go. You should have been trying to play me.
00:50:37:18 – 00:51:13:06
Rée
Oh, oh, so your friend thought of it as like a power play? Yeah. That’s interesting. So I’m really, really impressed by how you sort of scaffolded this, like, or how you made the connection between this is, you know, like, because she was really young when she had that, like financial responsibility and, you know, being present in the business and, you know, you built that all the way through and, and you had her like, invest in stocks and, companies.
00:51:13:06 – 00:51:50:09
Rée
And now, you know, you’re like, you already have a plan for how you’re going to get her to understand, like, property and like, you know, having tenants and things like that. And I think this is really incredible because I think one really big, I guess, criticism I have of like, public education or mass education in general is that they don’t really make, you know, I think you mentioned this already, that it like grades don’t translate into finances into into cash, into money.
00:51:50:11 – 00:52:30:00
Rée
And so what you’re doing here is you’re setting up an education that’s based in real world responsibilities and things like that. But it’s really brilliant. And I think it’s really amazing that you’ve been able to set up this, curriculum or program and philosophy and mindset really rooted in real world, in real life. And, you know, not a lot of people are are going to have that same understanding at the age, you know, I’m like in my 40s now and I still don’t have that understanding.
00:52:30:00 – 00:53:17:09
Rée
And your daughter is 16 and she’s so much ahead of me already and understanding how the real world works in terms of like owning property and, and having ownership of companies and things like that. And so I wanted to ask you, how do we prepare an entire generation of young people to have that kind of financial understanding and education and literacy at a young age, either in connection with or a complementary or alternative to public education.
00:53:17:11 – 00:53:38:05
Phyllis
As long as they go to school, they’re going to be overwhelmed by school. They’re going to be by the educational system. I’ll put it that way, because one of the things I did not want for Morgan, I don’t want you to go sit in a building for 6 to 7 hours and then come home and still have to do stuff for three and four and five hours called homework.
00:53:38:07 – 00:53:54:22
Phyllis
You should have known that. That’s what the school is for. You should not have to come home and study even more. I understand you need to take your test, but I didn’t. And one of the one of the things I, I went to school was a threat in my house. I was seeing your ass out in that building.
00:53:54:22 – 00:54:32:22
Phyllis
And you know how much you don’t like kids. So play with me. But as long as there’s as long as there’s children out there that the educational educational system is pushing towards Stem and steam and all of these type of things, there is. There’s limited things that parents with jobs can do, and it’s. I think more, more schools need to offer real world afterschool programs, especially like if your parents are still at work, then let me understand some real world stuff.
00:54:33:00 – 00:54:55:05
Phyllis
One of the things that I’m trying to put together is I want to put together a program, because I do personal branding, I want to put together a personal branding program for juniors and seniors that teach them personal branding, especially for athletes. Now that they can accept money, how about we build your personal brand? So when you go out and you negotiate your contract, sweetie, you already come in with the audience.
00:54:55:05 – 00:55:11:15
Phyllis
You come in with some money in the door. So you’ve had to pay me some more. And for kids who over here that already have technical sense and able to do some shit. Sweetie, let’s go over here. You can still go to college, but you’re going to go to college with. You know what? I’m already making money. You’re just enhancing my education.
00:55:11:17 – 00:55:32:18
Phyllis
So if we have these type of programs that are available some kind of way, then, you know, our kids will learn something other than how to read, write an arithmetic. That’s all fine and good, but you’re pushing them towards a system to get a job, get a better paying job. And these jobs are now cycling through kids. And I’m calling and kids say 20 or 30 years old.
00:55:32:21 – 00:55:42:03
Phyllis
They’re cycling through kids like, okay, we use you up for five years. We need the next batch because they learn something better than you have here is you’re basically treating them like the next iPhone.
00:55:42:05 – 00:55:43:00
Rée
Yeah.
00:55:43:01 – 00:56:03:07
Phyllis
You know what? This is a different version. This is version 220 .25. So we’re deleting this one. We’re going to phase it out. We need to bring in this. And that’s how I feel like these companies are cycling through these kids. And so now they’re like I went to school I incurred all this debt. You tell me I’m done.
00:56:03:07 – 00:56:23:22
Phyllis
I’m washed out at 2535. Are you kidding me? I haven’t even made a dent in my student loans. But then you’re still offering me more debt, because now what you’re doing is you’re putting up all these commercials of, like, oh, get $500 here. Oh, get $500 here. And you get to pay it back, and you want you’re giving them you’re offering them more debt with less pay.
00:56:24:00 – 00:56:43:13
Phyllis
They need the debt because you won’t fucking pay them. And then you’re telling them that this is the best that they can do because you already told them. Because everybody say charge your worth. You’re trying to tell them this all they’re worth. You worth five years of this, I’m gonna pay this money and then I don’t give a fuck what you do.
00:56:43:15 – 00:57:02:16
Phyllis
So how about we teach a few more of these babies? How to go out, start some businesses before everybody can’t be a cute ass actor and model. But you can go out here and swear you got. In a sense, I promise you, you’ve got more than an adult to go out here and do this thing. As long as you understand how to run a business in the real world.
00:57:02:18 – 00:57:20:23
Phyllis
When I used to, I used to do a program, under my old company name, where I used to do a 1212 week boot camp with kids. On being entrepreneurs. And the one one of the lessons was always when you walk into a room full of windows, I’m gonna tell you how they’re going to treat you. They’re going to treat you like a kid and what you have to be.
00:57:20:23 – 00:57:39:01
Phyllis
Do you have to demand the respect of a business owner. Don’t let them talk down to you. Don’t let them mistreat you. Don’t let them dismiss you. It’s like, excuse me, I came in here as a business owner. Just like you did. Yes, I’m young, but I got money in the bank. Do you want to? Do you want to lay him out and measure up?
00:57:39:01 – 00:57:57:06
Phyllis
Come on now. So when you. When you walk in here, sweetie, you’re going to have to demand that respect because they’re going to dismiss you because you’re. Yeah, it’s going to be hard. You finally going to walk away a few times in tears, but you’re going to have to have that resilience to go back into the room and say, you know what?
00:57:57:06 – 00:58:16:06
Phyllis
I’m back. Yes, you made me cry. Yes, I’m a kid, but I’m a business owner. Can we talk business? You’re going to have to earn the respect. And I promise you, you come back in that time, they’re going to respect you, and they’re going to give you every fucking thing you ask for. Because you got balls to come in here and ask for.
00:58:16:08 – 00:58:32:07
Phyllis
So it’s giving them that understanding. Don’t teach them how they should just so they can go get a job. So do you want a job is done. How about you do this on this? I have a side hustle. Not because you need the money, but because this is my strategy to quit your job. You ain’t got to find me.
00:58:32:07 – 00:58:50:22
Phyllis
I’m leaving in five years anyway, because you’re going to teach me what I need to know to go run my business better. This money is financing my business. You ain’t got to worry about me. And then you’ll be back in about five years trying to buy my shit. But I’m not going to sell it to you. But you know what?
00:58:50:22 – 00:59:05:15
Phyllis
I will license it to you. How about that? You going to send me my money every month? And it’s going to be enough. More than what you would have paid me had you hired me. Make them. Oh, please. I girl. Now don’t get me started.
00:59:05:17 – 00:59:35:16
Rée
Yeah. I was like, you know, you have a full on vision and I love your vision. And it’s very similar to a lot of the things that, yeah, I think collectively as talking to people on this podcast, I think we’re all kind of done with the system of like, you know, not being taught how to live our lives for ourselves, but, you know, to go off and make money for the economy.
00:59:35:18 – 01:00:06:00
Rée
Right. And so and they treat us like disposable things. And like you were talking about, they treat us like iPhones. That is amazing. That’s a great analogy. And it’s so true. And so like your vision is in line with a lot of different, you know, movements that are going on, you know, in like self-directed education and giving agency back and giving power back to our young people to decide what their lives are going to look like.
01:00:06:02 – 01:00:31:09
Rée
And you know, I’m curious what you think about, like, colleges, are they going to become obsolete? Right. Because if we’re because I really agree with your vision of teaching our young people how to be financially literate and to live their lives for themselves and not to get a job that, you know, they become disposable in, and that’s definitely how I’m raising my daughter.
01:00:31:10 – 01:00:53:20
Rée
I want to raise my daughter in tech to give her her own personal brand. Right. To give her her own something to call her own, and that she’s building her own empire? Yeah. And so how do you think? Like, you know, colleges are going to change. How do you think education, higher education is going to change?
01:00:54:02 – 01:01:07:05
Rée
How do you think the world is going to change in terms of, you know what? Our young people are going to grow up and become?
01:01:07:07 – 01:01:09:18
Rée
As a generation.
01:01:09:20 – 01:01:28:01
Phyllis
As a generation, to me, they’re making them dumber because they’re giving them tools to take the place of of critical thinking. And if you need nothing else, you need critical thinking. AI is a great tool, but it does not help with critical thinking. If you told it, you know, a give me the thing to do this. Don’t write it for me.
01:01:28:01 – 01:01:45:18
Phyllis
Just give me the ideas and then make them go figure that shit out that I can get where. But when they’re using AI to to plagiarize papers and then put it into their own words so it doesn’t look plagiarized. So whether you are getting the, the, the same information from the same source, all your shit going to look alike.
01:01:45:20 – 01:02:03:14
Phyllis
So how about we change the structure of school instead of having them go to a building? How about building their their curriculum? If you going to make them do 12 years, then do 12 years on the shit that they want to do. And the thing that the reason why I change it might change my stance on Morgan back from the getting out of the 18.
01:02:03:16 – 01:02:24:07
Phyllis
It’s like we tell kids they’re irresponsible, but then we expect them to choose what they were supposed to do, what the rest of them with the rest of their lives, while they’re still irresponsible. What are you going to major in? How the fuck do I know, I don’t even want to go to school today. And you want me to figure out what I’m going to do for four year?
01:02:24:07 – 01:02:45:10
Phyllis
That’s why I leave you. You told me I was irresponsible, and I’m not old enough to make my own choices. But I have to. I do have to declare a major. Really? You tell me. I’m legal at 18, but I still can’t buy beer. But I can get a credit card. But you telling me I’m irresponsible? How about if I’m irresponsible?
01:02:45:10 – 01:03:07:22
Phyllis
Stop giving me fucking responsibilities. So if. If you give me the choice. I think curriculum should be based on a kid’s gift talents and abilities. So if we are able to spend time with our children and fully understand them. Like I know Morgan was created way back in the day, and that was because he was homeschooled, because I was here.
01:03:08:00 – 01:03:32:08
Phyllis
Guess she’s good at math. She just doesn’t like math. Oh, when I have English questions, I go to Morgan because I, I and year don’t end. Oh, geography. I just need to go back to school. But the thing is, is like, okay, my thing that I push on, sweetie. Yeah, I know this is not you, so I’m. I need you to go study somewhere.
01:03:32:10 – 01:03:49:00
Phyllis
I don’t care if you get it off YouTube. I will go pay for Udemy. We’re going to. Where are we getting this education from? Because you are an amazing artist. You have the ability to be amazing, largely because you still do some shit on purpose because you’re trying to piss me off. But you. But you’re also an amazing writer.
01:03:49:01 – 01:04:11:18
Phyllis
You’re so. She already has three published books, but her recent stuff she will not publish. I don’t know why. And these are all of her recent stories. She won on her own. The ones that. Oh, scuse me, the ones we wrote together. Okay, those are done. You don’t even talk about those books anymore. But you’re still writing and I mean long fanfiction.
01:04:12:00 – 01:04:25:03
Phyllis
She wrote this one story. It was. It was. It was for. And this is how I describe it. It was trans.
01:04:25:05 – 01:04:49:14
Phyllis
Alien something or other. But they were for males and they were friends. And the way she described the story, I actually cried. I actually felt it because there there were the there were four boys. And this how well I remember the story and how much it touched me. There were four, four males because they were like someone had a purple tail and some had an ear, so but they were all male and they were all hang out together and they would all have fun.
01:04:49:14 – 01:05:08:23
Phyllis
But there was this one that will kind of be standoffish. And she was talking about his thoughts of like, why can’t I be like them? And I don’t feel like I fit in and but they were always trying to include him, even though he felt unanchored it and they were at the house and so the three boys were always laughing and giggling and watching TVs off on the couch by itself.
01:05:08:23 – 01:05:27:04
Phyllis
And the the one of the other little alien beings came over and he was trying to I’m trying to hold his hand and hug him, and and he’s he just didn’t feel worthy of it. And it was like, this is this is a story that you need to tell. And especially at your age, writing it for someone your age.
01:05:27:06 – 01:05:54:06
Phyllis
Babies need to hear this. And it’s like she’s like, no, not yet, not yet. I can’t force you. But if a story like that, this is not even my genre of stories or whatever, I don’t even read fiction anymore. And this touched me. It touched me. So did that that right there. If that’s not a writer, I don’t know what else.
01:05:54:07 – 01:06:16:08
Phyllis
I don’t know what else. If you can make me read some shit that I wouldn’t pick up off a shelf, I read the whole story. This needs to be published. But she would never let me publish it. She wouldn’t. And it’s like anything that she’s good at, she doesn’t want it. She’s. I think she’s scared is going to be turned into a job, and she doesn’t want it to be that.
01:06:16:10 – 01:06:37:00
Phyllis
And so I told her, I said because like with her art, I’ve been I’ve been embracing art a little better because I’m like, what? Does somebody pay for that? But, but, but I’ve been embracing it a little more because I used to get on her about art. I’m like, no more going to shit. You know that shit? You know you can do better.
01:06:37:02 – 01:06:54:16
Phyllis
But I had to back up off of that. And it’s like, this is your art. Your art is personal to you. It doesn’t matter what I think. What somebody else is doing this is this is like I told her about because she’s always pouring into her friends. Because her friends are an emotional mess. Oh my God. And she’s always pouring into them.
01:06:54:16 – 01:07:16:12
Phyllis
And I hear and I said, but sweetie, who’s pouring it to you? I said, I, I, they may be doing it, but I don’t hear it because you probably wouldn’t tell me your side when you need pouring into. So I don’t know if they’re pouring it. You, I said, but when you need to refill, sweetie, go to your art and nobody is understanding you take it out on your art.
01:07:16:14 – 01:07:37:09
Phyllis
Let that be your dig. You’re filling your filling cup. I don’t have to like it. I don’t even have to look at it. As long as you feel better and full and joy, not happiness. Joy, which is totally different. Baby, if this is your joy, then you better fucking draw your ass off because this is for you and nobody else.
01:07:37:15 – 01:08:03:10
Phyllis
Whether you sell it, whether you give it away, whether you hang it upside down on a trash can, it is yours. That’s what you do. You can call yourself an artist if you never sell a thing. Nobody else gets to take that away from you just because you didn’t sell a penny. Sweetie, you are a writer. And. And that’s the published books.
01:08:03:12 – 01:08:27:13
Phyllis
The way that you write makes you a writer. When you sitting here tapping out full on stories on your phone and Google that baby. That’s a writer. Because I promise you, either through that phone on go find me a keyboard. These are your gifts. And so this is what we need to nurture in you. And here’s the thing.
01:08:27:15 – 01:08:46:05
Phyllis
Nobody saying you have to be a writer and an artist. Father, you might get older and find another interest. And as long as you’re able to pivot, as long as you have the, the, the cash money, as long as we set your investments at the time and pivot as many times you want to and not break a sweat because you still got some money right here.
01:08:46:07 – 01:09:07:11
Phyllis
That’s why you invest. When I decide I’m to go run off on a tangent and figure some shit out. You know what? I gotta go get alone. I got money right here. I ain’t got to use no credit cards. I got some money right here. And because I got my duplex, bitch got a place to live.
01:09:07:13 – 01:09:13:14
Rée
That’s awesome. That’s so awesome. Oh, man. You know.
01:09:13:16 – 01:09:34:23
Phyllis
I don’t think I ever answered your your original question, but I do think schools in and of themselves are coming, becoming obsolete. And I think if parents lean into like owning the fact that everybody wasn’t meant for Stem esteem. My child is creative. He’s an artist, he’s a musician, whatever. Then that’s what we nurture and that’s what we build our curriculum on.
01:09:35:00 – 01:09:54:15
Phyllis
Stop making them take humanities and humanities and all this other should just to get a degree. And it does nothing for me. I know it makes us better rounded, but if we’re able to include some of the well-rounded stuff instead of making them take humanities ticket to go to the museum, walk them through whether they want to, I don’t care.
01:09:54:15 – 01:10:12:17
Phyllis
You’re taking your ass to the museum, taking you to the opera, taking you to the ballet because you’re going at least once to decide if you really don’t like it. That’s how Morgan, like my husband, is a food person. Morgan can’t say she doesn’t like anything until she’s tasted it. Me, I won’t you ain’t making me take shit.
01:10:12:22 – 01:10:36:08
Phyllis
But she got a taste it. And then you can say you don’t like it. So give it at the schools and the way that they are. If you still need to have the the structure of monitoring, that’s fine. But let the parents choose curriculum because they know their children better than you and parents who are sending their schools, their kids to school without any support anyway.
01:10:36:10 – 01:10:59:08
Phyllis
So the the national you say the schools for because they need that structure because they’re not getting it at home. If they need to go down this path because nobody’s directing them, then give them that formal education. But for kids who have parents that can, you know what? I can monitor my child better than you can. Even though I have a job or even though I work from home, I can monitor, then let me pick my my child’s curriculum.
01:10:59:10 – 01:11:14:11
Phyllis
If this is the pathway to be a better artist, and this is the one they’re going to take out on all the actions that I can that I want to throw in or that my child is interested in. But let’s do it this way. So that’s the answer to your question, because I went all off on a tangent.
01:11:14:11 – 01:11:15:13
Phyllis
So I’m sorry.
01:11:15:15 – 01:12:13:02
Rée
No worries. No. And I think there’s just so much here. It’s lots of stories and and the and your philosophies that are intertwined is, you know, it’s really present in the way that you execute, especially in your parenting and also as an educator, as your, as your child’s educator. And so, I guess, you know, my last question really, for you is, if there was one thing that you could change about your own education journey, and how you see the world heading for your daughters, generation, what change would you have made?
01:12:13:04 – 01:12:36:09
Phyllis
I probably think for myself, knowing that I was going to if I had known or planned way back then, that when I have children that were that was going to homeschool, I would have understood curriculum better. I would have understand how that supposed to be structured, because either even if I sent my child off to after school, I would have understand how I wanted her to go to school.
01:12:36:11 – 01:12:58:04
Phyllis
And because I, I you you tell me I’m required to make her go here instead. Anything else? And I’m going to jail for truancy. Really? Because I don’t say my. Because you need money for attendance. Yeah, that’s shady shit. But, But I would have understood the curriculum better, and I would, had I probably would have told them if I left Morgan.
01:12:58:06 – 01:13:15:12
Phyllis
Now, we’re not doing this. This is the program that I want to hear. Well, this is all required now. That’s required by you because you wanted to pass a test. So you see where she fits in the hierarchy of corporate America. So you need to make her feel bad about not being able to fit in. So she has to go get a blue collar job.
01:13:15:12 – 01:13:34:16
Phyllis
And blue collar jobs paid well. But you guys, you y’all are losing all those jobs because you’re making kids feel bad when you when there are no more garbage man. What are you going to do when there are no more mailmen? What are you going to do? You know, pick up your shit at the. Yeah. Are you gonna have it fall out the sky because you’re going to have a drone drop it off and all that shit.
01:13:34:18 – 01:13:59:01
Phyllis
I appreciate the janitors, the plumbers. You guys have tried to make those jobs like, oh, no, I don’t want my be a plumber, baby. Go dig under the house, charge all your money and and go home if that’s what you want to do, because you like big puzzle pieces together, you might be the best plumber ever. You get to go roll around in some dirt.
01:13:59:03 – 01:14:17:01
Phyllis
You might love being a dirty head, but because they tried to make you feel bad for making that choice, you spent all that money on education. No, because I told you what I wanted to be. You just didn’t believe me. I did what you wanted to do. Now I’m going to do what I want to do. Why do you think we have a midlife crisis?
01:14:17:01 – 01:14:30:19
Phyllis
Because you took all of our choices away when you told us that we had to be this. So now I’m gone and got all my money. I’m a run. I’m looking at the zip. Damn full. Because you took my choices away.
01:14:30:21 – 01:14:39:18
Rée
Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.