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00:00:04:02 – 00:00:30:06
Unknown
Gosh. Okay. That’s a really great question. Well, I can see that that is such a big question. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a tough question. Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety. I struggle to learn in the ways my peers learned.
00:00:30:08 – 00:01:05:19
Unknown
Additionally, as the only child of a single immigrant mom with a limited understanding of how American society worked, I didn’t have the adequate support from home to supplement my knowledge gap. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. Over the past ten months, I spoke with people in 27 countries across six continents to examine the shifting perspectives on education practices globally and using the human centered design framework to facilitate and process these interviews.
00:01:05:21 – 00:01:35:22
Unknown
I asked a lot of big questions about what kind of messaging they received about themselves and their abilities from their teachers, parents and peers about the significant hardships they faced and what they learned from the events that altered their life trajectories. I asked about the people who supported them, the people who hindered them, and for their ideas on how to improve our systems for the next generation.
00:01:36:00 – 00:02:33:11
Unknown
The responses I received were vulnerable, generous, insightful and combined altogether extraordinarily powerful. In this final episode of Season one, I will share the five insights I gathered upon reflecting on the emerging themes and patterns from all of these amazing conversations and the opportunities they reveal about how to bring about a much needed reform in education. And if I were to phrase that into the question of the week, it would be how might we empower students to lead their own personalized learning journeys by fundamentally reimagining education systems to prioritize collaborative growth over standardized metrics of competition?
00:02:33:12 – 00:03:05:17
Unknown
Okay, so it was how? Okay, so give me that again. The first insight is that parents and educators exert control and power to manage young people’s performance and behavior. But being gatekeepers of their success only detracts them from developing their own internal locus of control. In episode 15, Leah shared a memory of a school culture that consistently used fear and shame to motivate its students.
00:03:05:18 – 00:03:37:16
Unknown
So I remember there was this incident with a Chinese guy. He was giving some math homework, and then he asked all those students who have three mistakes and above come up, line up so that he can give each one of us smack with a feather duster on the pump. Yeah. So? So we all came out. I think I know maybe about ten of us also.
00:03:37:18 – 00:04:01:20
Unknown
So. So before he smacked you, he will ask, how many mistakes do you have? Then someone would say, three and a half. And then someone would say four. And then I was really, really scared because I had seven mistakes. So so I was listening to one by one. And then it’s like I was thinking, no one has more mistakes than me.
00:04:01:22 – 00:04:22:15
Unknown
So. So when it was my turn, I was like, I can’t remember. I was crying already. I don’t know. Yeah. So I said. So he asked how many? 6 hours. It’s seven. Seven. So he was like, surprise. And then he smacked me. And then I think after he smacked me, I cry. I was like, crying. For real? Yeah.
00:04:22:17 – 00:04:56:00
Unknown
So? So that was like, kind of normal. Yeah. In the primary school. Curious about how this affected her. I actually. About what kind of fear it was. Okay. I don’t think is just afraid of the physical part. Yeah, but it’s also the part where you’re being singled out for not being good enough. you are. You don’t want to be.
00:04:56:02 – 00:05:28:20
Unknown
Create attention for something that is not good. Yeah. And then you also aware that you are not the brightest in the class. Although Leah grew up in a setting where corporal punishment was legal and public humiliation was common practice. Fear based motivation tactics are still widely in effect in homes and classrooms around the world. Joyce from Episode 25, who also grew up in Asia, reflected on the culture of fear and silence in the home.
00:05:28:22 – 00:06:10:10
Unknown
I’ve always had the fear of speaking up. I think I learned it more from my family, though, because I think like you in my family and my culture as a kid, you’re taught to never talk back. Yeah, like, yeah, never talk back, Never ask stupid questions. Never. Basically ask questions that cause an inconvenience to other people. Like, if someone needs to stop and explain to you why that’s not the case.
00:06:10:10 – 00:06:36:07
Unknown
That’s too much. Yes. So I think it’s been sort of ingrained in me to not ask questions because you don’t know when you’re going to ask the wrong one. It’s better just to not ask any questions. Joyce articulated this feeling better than I could and then shared a story of what shifted in her mind when she went abroad for university.
00:06:36:09 – 00:07:02:00
Unknown
I was lost. I was so clueless, but I didn’t know what I was clueless about. Like, I didn’t. Even if I were to ask for help, I didn’t know how to ask for help. Like I didn’t know how to put it into a sentence of what help I was looking for. Joyce articulated this feeling better than I could and then shared a story of what shifted in her mind when she went abroad for university.
00:07:02:02 – 00:07:28:14
Unknown
It was only, I think, the second or third semester. Much later on that one day there was a lecturer who was explaining what it means to be an art student. So he kind of drew a diagram of like this list of facts. And as an art student, you take a few steps back and look at all the facts that’s being presented and form an opinion about it.
00:07:28:16 – 00:07:56:09
Unknown
And that was basically critical thinking or analytical thinking and it was in that moment that I was like, is that what we’re supposed to do? And I was just mind blowing. And I’m like, How did I not know this? And thinking about where I came from. I just I think what’s really scary even now, thinking back, is that often you don’t know what you don’t know.
00:07:56:11 – 00:08:26:00
Unknown
When education systems, educators and its cultures decide what is taught, when it is taught and how it is taught, we stripped from young people the power and right to take ownership of their learning. And this loss of control stays with them for a long time. So got into the top 10% of the school. In high school, Yeah. But then it was such a big change for me.
00:08:26:06 – 00:08:57:10
Unknown
I think I didn’t know how to handle it. And I lost the motivation to study because right now I didn’t have someone to constantly instill fear in me to to push me to study. And I have to find the interests of motivation to study now. Right. If education is really about setting our young people up for success, does it make sense to continue robbing them of their agency?
00:08:57:12 – 00:09:40:10
Unknown
And if not, then how might we design experiences that spark intrinsic motivation and inspire individuals to actively participate in their own growth and development? The second insight is that our mass education model measures the success of its students on how quickly they can consume and digest information and how accurately they can reproduce or regurgitate what they’ve learned. However, such external pressures have various negative consequences and have little efficacy in the long term.
00:09:40:12 – 00:10:02:19
Unknown
Chicken from episode 18 shared a memory of facing public humiliation. I remember I was called I’ve had this traumatic experience with like math because I remember I was called out in the fourth grade for some multiplication thing, and I was so nervous that I couldn’t say the answer. And then, like everybody thought I was like, dumb or whatever.
00:10:02:21 – 00:10:32:21
Unknown
So since then, I really struggle with numbers. So it’s, you know, I think for different people at different ages and different stages, different events in their life, stay with them because maybe they had a similar experience that it really was no big deal. But for me, it was it was quite a vivid memory that kind of held me back in a lot of ways.
00:10:32:23 – 00:11:31:10
Unknown
Samantha from Episode 12 had a similar experience. I had some really harrowing experiences with being on like a debate team and like having to flesh out an argument out of my mouth, whereas like writing and rewriting and editing is like a very safe place for me to figure out, like exactly what I think about something. So I do feel like that’s a really sacred part of learning to me, emerging patterns and themes from the conversations on this podcast suggest that environments which demand and expect immediate results lead to deterioration of mental and physical health, as well as lost opportunities for deep thought and reflection.
00:11:31:12 – 00:12:04:00
Unknown
In episode 30, I shared a breakthrough moment during my six years of therapy working through various childhood traumas, including low self-esteem. She was like, Let’s still look at all of the different areas in your life where perfectionism is actually making a negative impact. Right. And that was before we realized, these like digestion, digestion issues that I’ve been having.
00:12:04:02 – 00:12:36:18
Unknown
that’s definitely perfectionism. And that compulsion that you have to eat a certain way. Yeah, we would call that an eating disorder. But you know what the root cause of that is your perfectionism, right? This, you know, issue that you have about feeling like you’re not a good mother. Let’s take a look at that. Yep. That’s perfectionism. And so, you know, as we started to peel back the layers, I was like,
00:12:36:20 – 00:13:08:19
Unknown
Like, every issue that I have that is either manifesting mentally, emotionally, spiritually, or even physically has a root cause of perfectionism. Now, in case you think perfectionism is a good thing, I want to share something Dr. Brené Brown wrote in her book Daring Greatly. Perfectionism is not the same thing as striving for excellence. Perfectionism is not about healthy achievement and growth.
00:13:08:21 – 00:13:53:20
Unknown
In fact, research shows that perfectionism hampers achievement. It is correlated with it is correlated with depression, anxiety, addiction, and life paralysis or missed opportunities. The fear of failing, making mistakes, not meeting people’s expectations and being criticized keeps us outside of the arena where healthy competition and striving unfolds. Almost every participant who was interviewed shared at least one moment from their education journey that led to feelings of personal or cultural inferiority and or intellectual insecurity.
00:13:53:22 – 00:14:31:09
Unknown
Whether it’s a math class, a debate, a presentation, a policy, or even just a sigh of disappointment, the schooling environment consistently punishes students for not performing well within the time frame assigned. However, research shows that satisfactory performance in the short term does not necessarily lead to success in the long term. And according to David Epstein in his book Range, the slower and deeper the learning, the greater success students will have in the future.
00:14:31:11 – 00:15:09:06
Unknown
Thus, if performance in the short term is not an indication of lifelong success, does it make sense to continue demanding speed and accuracy? And if not, then how might we cultivate a culture that prioritizes the iterative nature of continuous learning and development over achieving goals within rigid timeframes? The third insight is that mass education approaches student assessment based on a narrow definition of success.
00:15:09:07 – 00:15:43:05
Unknown
But research most notably by Dr. Carol Dweck on mindset and Dr. Angela Duckworth on grit, consistently shows that given the right resources and guidance, anyone can overcome any obstacle by adopting a growth mindset and persevering. And while it may benefit a student who consistently performs well for the time being, according to David Epstein, such external pressures may dampen future success in more challenging environments or worse, can eventually lead to burnout.
00:15:43:07 – 00:16:27:14
Unknown
As Maron from episode 28 shared, I was praised for being intelligent and it put me in my head a lot, and I always felt like I had to overperform and like not show how much work I was actually doing. So it did lead to a lot of imposter syndrome and, you know, it wasn’t until I got out of school and I kind of burnt out on school and all the performance that was involved and that kind of like validation seeking that I ultimately, especially in college, I started to feel like really burnt out on, on school and feeling like it was very meaningless and that I couldn’t.
00:16:27:16 – 00:16:54:17
Unknown
It wasn’t sustainable. Like I couldn’t keep operating in the same way that I finally, like got more in touch with myself and like my emotions and all of that. And that’s why I’m stressing like that. It’s important to try to involve like the whole students, you know? Leah, in episode 15, shared something similar in a class academically. Someone has to be on top.
00:16:54:17 – 00:17:24:21
Unknown
Someone has to be below. Yeah, but then if you are able to show that in this aspect, this is the ranking, but then in other aspects, you know, the other people have a chance to shine, then I think that that might work out better. The current model awards students who can yield quick results with satisfactory accuracy, but students who cannot meet these metrics are overlooked and fall through the cracks.
00:17:24:23 – 00:18:12:02
Unknown
The single definition of success group students into two categories those who are valuable to society and those who are not. Students who receive messaging about their academic shortcomings often grow up with limiting beliefs about their abilities and struggle with other mental health challenges. Here is educator, author and micro school founder Lisette from episode 23. This idea, I think when we when we say falling behind, if definitely is giving kids the idea that they have to hurry and they have to catch up because there again, not enough and then they become adult that are in therapy because they feel as though they’re not enough 100%.
00:18:12:04 – 00:18:49:11
Unknown
So we really need and we really need to stop giving that message to our students that they are behind, that they kind of didn’t they don’t pass. They don’t pass. Right. Because whether it’s an essay or it’s really tough math problems, you’re not enough. It is a soul deep situation that begins with then within them. But what would it look like if schools embraced the whole child in episode seven?
00:18:49:13 – 00:19:16:07
Unknown
See, an art therapist shared a story about a case she never forgot. So one case was I really am in my mind all the time was kids that came into the playroom and he was just like playing this sand. And I was like, seeing he was putting like the Lego figures into the sand. And those are like peepholes inside.
00:19:16:09 – 00:19:40:00
Unknown
And he, after hiding all the people, then he puts he wrote like S.O.S. on the sand, and then we start like going more in, dive into why the figures would need to hide into the sand. Why? Like what this it mean for this kid? Because maybe for them, it’s like they see on TV, but they don’t know. It is like a help sign.
00:19:40:02 – 00:20:25:13
Unknown
And he starts to talk about, like, how sand like hiding is something that is safe for him to do when he is like at home. Then we realize that, his stepfather was using Cigarets on his back when he was a drunk or something. Like, I’m just having, like, a bad day. When students whose caregivers and families experience hardships impacting their basic rights or needs, such as abuse, family separation and financial insecurity, they often carry heavy mental and emotional burdens that can interfere with their academic participation.
00:20:25:15 – 00:21:01:17
Unknown
In episode 14. Stephen, the executive director of a national racial justice organization, shared about the type of stories the media would write about people close to him. That was like the story that I saw and predominant media and that story influenced how the government and institutions that emanated from government treated immigrants. You know, I saw how nurses and doctors that my mom went to go see when she was on Medi-Cal would treat her.
00:21:01:19 – 00:21:29:17
Unknown
I saw how, you know, social caseworkers would deal with her when she was on food stamps. You know, I saw my mom’s kind of fear and like going to work because I had AIDS back then, you know, right before I had I.A. and in streets where thing. So there was this thing that this story wasn’t just a story, it had real tangible impacts.
00:21:29:19 – 00:22:09:22
Unknown
When our students come to school with such diverse experiences and hardships, does it make sense to continue ranking students on their ability to perform in comparison to their peers? And if not, then how might we design inclusive learning environments that consider our students diverse backgrounds and learning needs and offer personalized guidance and resources to support them? The fourth insight is that the education system measures the success of its students on how well they perform on standardized exams.
00:22:10:00 – 00:22:29:02
Unknown
But test scores do not translate to success in the real world. All the incentives are wrong, like they’re probably being incentivized. You know, if they have the highest test scores and things like that. But the research is already out there. I don’t know if it was the excellent sheet book or one of the books that we both read that just proved that.
00:22:29:03 – 00:22:49:20
Unknown
Yeah. And I sat score. It has no bearing on like how well you’re going to do in life. I think they were actually experimenting with other modes of quote unquote testing, you know, kids. That would be a better assessment. And it’s something like, hey, here’s this couch, like find a way to get someone to help you move it.
00:22:49:22 – 00:23:20:06
Unknown
Right. It’s those real life skills, the collaborative skills. Everyone needs that in the workplace. That was Merryn from episode 28. Schools prioritize building skills that will help students get into college, but not on building skills that will help them survive in the economy. In fact, attempting to gain financial literacy skills is often heavily discouraged. In episode five, Mitzi shared a memory from sixth grade about selling candy at school.
00:23:20:08 – 00:23:35:11
Unknown
So I started to sell these these candies, making $0.10 on each one. And I went home and told my mom. And I was like, you know, can we go to the candy store again? I want to get some more of these. The kids and the kids like them. They want them. And so she said, sure, you know, she was all into it.
00:23:35:11 – 00:23:52:12
Unknown
She’s like, this is great. So she took me to the candy store on the way to school. I got them start selling them at school. So it became a bit of a regular thing where I was selling these candies and my mom was happy and it was great. The kids were happy. Everyone was happy except for one person.
00:23:52:14 – 00:24:21:18
Unknown
Mrs. Harvey. Mrs. Harvey was a teacher in in the sixth grade, and she was very much be loved by everyone. She was the kind of teacher who danced around in front of the classroom. She got everybody involved and excited. Everyone loved her. And so Mrs. Harvey got wind that I was selling these things. And she came to me in the morning and she when she caught me like mid transaction and she it just like it was like she was like, what is going on here?
00:24:21:20 – 00:24:40:07
Unknown
You cannot do this. What are you doing? And I just said, I’m, you know, I’m selling I’m selling some candy. And she she shut me down with shame. She was like, You cannot do this. This is wrong. This is morally wrong. Basically was what she said. She didn’t use the word morally, but she told me it was wrong.
00:24:40:09 – 00:25:03:11
Unknown
And and what I heard her say to me was, you are bad, you are immoral. You are doing something really bad. Mitzi, who coincidentally became a public school teacher, reflected on this experience. I don’t know if it was because it was happening in school or if it was the the idea of the enterprise itself she didn’t like she never explained that.
00:25:03:13 – 00:25:34:07
Unknown
But I think there was probably a way to handle that that would have been uplifting and encouraged me as as a budding entrepreneur, rather than shut me down and tell me it’s wrong, because then that reinforced negative money stories. Such strictly controlled learning environments where curriculum is predetermined and compartmentalized into contrived subjects lead to students and parents looking for alternative schooling methods that embrace a more holistic model of education.
00:25:34:09 – 00:26:04:12
Unknown
In Episode ten, Astron, a parent shared about the school they chose for their family and how one of the cornerstones of the first grade curriculum was about growing corn. The students would hold the seeds in their hands, learn how to prepare the soil and water the plants. Over time, they would monitor the growth of the corn. Measure how much the plant and leaves had grown, and record the data in their journals at the end of the semester.
00:26:04:14 – 00:26:31:04
Unknown
He would harvest the corn and make corn fritters. You’ll learn a century. You’ll learn like enough to acknowledge like a God. That gift is alive and we have to let that grow. While we thank God for its fluid at the end of the day. And they also learn a lot about maths and science, right? They go to measurement and also the arts.
00:26:31:06 – 00:27:08:18
Unknown
Then it’s on the destiny to learn their, you know, the coins and all of that. So yeah, this like a corn philosophy becoming to understand if real world activities and requirements are all connected and sequential. Does it make sense to continue isolating skills and separating subjects? And if not, then how might we create learning environments that mirror real world scenarios, engaging students in meaningful activities that foster application of knowledge and transferable skills.
00:27:08:20 – 00:27:41:19
Unknown
The fifth and last insight is that the current education model values and benefits from individuals competing with each other for resources. But this leads to social inequities and breeds social disconnection. In episode 31, Antonio shared Everyone thinks that schooling is the great equalizer, the biggest crock of what ever. Like schooling is not the great equalizer. Schooling consistently amplifies disparities.
00:27:41:21 – 00:28:21:03
Unknown
And then every once in a while, you have someone like me and they’re just like, See, see, the system works, right? And just like, No, I’m just a temp that like, that allows you to have that talking point. Yeah. So. So I do think that if we could cultivate communities where everyone was valued at the beginning, not based on what they did, not based on what they, you know, what they’re going to do, but just everyone is valued from the beginning and accepted.
00:28:21:05 – 00:28:46:20
Unknown
That’s a great start. In episode eight, Raymond, the country manager of a global nonprofit organization, had a similar opinion. You know, we do work so that we can, you know, put food on the table. But there’s also this aspect where, you know, we could really be more fulfilled with what you do if you know that you’re doing it for the common good.
00:28:46:22 – 00:29:25:16
Unknown
Mitch, an entrepreneur and parent from episode three, echoed the challenge. I see that gets in the way of of progress and, you know, everybody being able to tap into what’s possible is, you know, are we taking care of each other? So, you know, when you have people whose personal net worth is in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and then you have people who are trying to figure out how to feed their children or their forgoing food themselves to feed their children.
00:29:25:18 – 00:29:51:02
Unknown
Right now, I read a statistic that we have one and a half times the amount of food to feed the entire world. And we’re not we’re not taking advantage of the abundance. We’re still in this scarcity mindset, you know, winner take all from the industrial era. And as we’re in the Internet age, we need to find a way to bring everybody up.
00:29:51:04 – 00:30:23:01
Unknown
Acknowledging the importance of community and working collaboratively with others to make the world more equitable is a significant theme that continues to emerge. In my ongoing conversations on this podcast. This shows that learning for the sake of learning just isn’t enough anymore, if it ever was. It shows that we have to find ways to consider the needs of the community by creating environments that prioritize collaboration over a competitive advantage.
00:30:23:03 – 00:30:54:22
Unknown
Antonio from Episode 31, who operated a self-directed learning center for seven years before becoming a father, shared how this could be possible. I think that self-directed education is unique in that it really allows for every single person to be doing their own thing. They don’t have to be in competition with anyone because they’re doing something that’s unique to themself and everyone else in that community.
00:30:54:23 – 00:31:34:04
Unknown
If it’s a healthy community, is cheering them on. That’s what I plan on doing with my child. If the future of the world will require more individuals and citizens working collaborative fully to solve society’s biggest problems, does it make sense to continue evaluating our students on individual performance? And if not, then how might we create a learning environment where collaboration becomes the catalyst for individual and collective growth, innovation and impact?
00:31:34:06 – 00:32:15:00
Unknown
Although there were many other insights that stemmed from these conversations, these five were most representative of the shifting perspectives on how we educate our children, both at home and at schools. Speaking with everyone thus far has informed and or strengthened my belief that our centralized model of education perpetuates a power dynamic that is top down and hierarchical, where young people have little power to make decisions about their interests, express their true beliefs, practice their values and utilize their bodies in necessary and desired ways.
00:32:15:02 – 00:32:47:19
Unknown
Throughout the season, I learned that such expectations to perform in ways that meet the socioeconomic demands of our leaders come at the cost of a collective workforce whose mental, emotional and physical health are compromised. However, the education systems of the future will be decentralized and will require each young person to be responsible for what and how they learn.
00:32:47:21 – 00:33:25:05
Unknown
This way of education will ensure that learning is meaningful and relevant to them and rooted in the communities where they identify. Young people will see that what they are doing and learning has real and meaningful impact in their communities. And for this to happen, we must work collaboratively to dismantle oppressive systems that withhold decision making power from individual citizens no matter how old they are.
00:33:25:06 – 00:33:44:06
Unknown
Thank you so much for listening to this episode, season and podcast. It has been such a joy and privilege to speak with people from around the world about their education, journeys and systems. See you next week for the start of season two. We have so much work to do.