Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of my name––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
Computer-generated Transcript of Conversation
00:00:02:19 – 00:00:31:10
Unknown
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety. I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned in the decades following. I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies.
00:00:31:12 – 00:01:06:16
Unknown
I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the one that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems, to rethink what schools can be, what it should be.
00:01:06:20 – 00:01:46:14
Unknown
When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Jay, an educator, journalist, project manager and dad, about his education journey spanning multiple countries, including the United States, Japan, Russia and South Korea. We talk about his earliest memories of learning to manage and harness the power of anger and how some traumatic experiences throughout his life tempered his control over his emotions.
00:01:46:16 – 00:02:01:03
Unknown
We also talk about the future of education and what he hopes the road will look like for his daughters. Here is our edited conversation.
00:02:01:05 – 00:02:34:08
Unknown
I was a quiet kid. I was usually the smallest in my class. Not the small, but second smallest used second or third smallest in my class. So and because I came back from the United States when I was seven, my Korean wasn’t good. And I think all that together kind of made me not kind of maybe a bit reserved expressing myself in front of others and at home as well.
00:02:34:10 – 00:03:15:09
Unknown
But I heard also I was I don’t know, maybe it’s I’m trying to find the right way to say this, but I always had anger inside of me. So, for example, you walk with me, like when I’m like five years old and I, you know, I trip, I fall down, you know, by myself, then I would blame the person who was next to me, like the adult, like my mom or dad and like, you know, start hitting them or crying, saying they made me fall right kind of thing.
00:03:15:11 – 00:03:43:23
Unknown
And when the doctor did a surgery, I had a surgery on my leg when I was also six, scratched her face, exposed. It was so painful. And after the surgery, because during the surgery, they don’t they kind of like hold you so that you you don’t move. So after the surgery, I heard like, I kind of like, you know, scratched her face.
00:03:44:01 – 00:04:15:04
Unknown
I don’t know if maybe this is not a good start, right? No, I yeah, So I was I was that kind of kid. I don’t know, like I would say, because my dad was very strict. So I would say normally in front of people. And when I have to be in those situations, when I have to be when I have to behave or where I have to behave, I would behave.
00:04:15:06 – 00:04:43:07
Unknown
But when I feel like, okay, this person is someone who I, you know, can show my true emotions, I would sometimes be like that. And like the doctor I heard after the surgery, she was trying to apologize, saying, I know it was painful and you know, but you are such a nice kid. And then that’s when I kind of scratched her.
00:04:43:09 – 00:05:08:21
Unknown
So as soon as I guess I felt, okay, this person is safe, you know, trying to be nice to me so this person’s not going to hurt me most probably, or, you know, yell at me or something. I did that. So, of course, my mom had to, like, apologize and everything. But anyway, so and then so I was quiet, but I also had this part of me.
00:05:08:23 – 00:05:57:10
Unknown
And then I guess when I was in high school, I got more active somehow. I didn’t like my personality, I think as far as I remember, and I tried to be more active, I saw other kids who I thought were cool, more better expressing themselves freely. And I thought, That’s kind of cool. So I think I tried to be more outgoing and reaching out to people before they reached out to me when I was in high school and I don’t know if it’s related, but since we were talking about that anger, I was just now talking about that anger inside of me.
00:05:57:12 – 00:06:32:09
Unknown
I think it helped me to motivate myself since I learned how to use it. So that negative emotion or or feeling that I kind of call anger from high school, I think I kind of learned can really motivate me what was the best way to motivate me in doing things like, you know, studying or trying to be better than others, making myself competitive.
00:06:32:11 – 00:07:02:06
Unknown
Then to be a nice person. I did like, you know, working with positive feelings, like, everything’s going to be okay. Then you, you don’t really get motivated because anyway, that’s going to be okay, right? But if you have that feeling of, you know, why didn’t I do do I didn’t I do good on the exams or why did I mess up this competition or race or whatever, then it really motivated me.
00:07:02:08 – 00:07:41:16
Unknown
So I think in high school I kind of my my personality changed a lot. And when I was in university, I went to Russia and Russia was also a great country. It influenced me a lot too. It made me stronger mentally and physically. I think. Yeah, I met great people there and I was again, very, I don’t know, like a blast.
00:07:41:16 – 00:08:12:10
Unknown
I would say I was privileged to be there. So I lived in the United States when I was young. For a while I lived in Japan, like for a year and then in Korea I lived and then I lived in Russia for for eight years. And all that kind of made me understand that we’re all the same. At the end of the day, whatever culture or background you have or just another person, everybody is.
00:08:12:12 – 00:08:44:20
Unknown
So we don’t have to feel like we’re different. They’re my enemy, you know, you don’t understand me because we’re all the same at the end of the day, in my opinion. And it it really helps me. Even until now, working. I work for a Singaporean company and it’s very diverse, culturally, religiously, and the work I do also is very international.
00:08:44:22 – 00:09:12:18
Unknown
so I think it helps me a lot that I had that experience to be in different countries, to be to be exposed to different culture and different cultures, right? That’s really interesting. And I want to I want to actually kind of backtrack a little bit because you were talking about how when you were younger, you had this like source of anger.
00:09:12:19 – 00:09:55:10
Unknown
Yeah. And you also mentioned that your parents were very strict. And I think you mentioned particularly your father. And a little while back, I was listening to a philosopher and he was talking about how when we are younger and we’re like forced by civilization to civilize faster than our maturity can handle, we develop like a shadow self. So like we develop a publicly acceptable face and then grow our shadow self in secret.
00:09:55:12 – 00:10:21:22
Unknown
And, you know, it’s and it’s this shadow self that’s like, you know, all the things that we say as a civilization is unacceptable. So like someone who is angry or someone who has who is jealous or envious or, you know, like those things that we want to sweep under the rug. Right. And I think that’s kind of actually what is wrong with society.
00:10:21:22 – 00:10:49:05
Unknown
Like, we try to paint this like perfect picture or try to present our like, best selves to the world and grow like all the other parts of ourselves that are also human and say that’s not okay. And so we grow that separately, away from people and then we have like that dissonance of, okay, we’re growing our secret side separately and we’re growing our public side separately.
00:10:49:05 – 00:11:19:07
Unknown
And, and the more we divide it, the farther we we become from ourselves. I think like, you know, like two branches growing, right? So I think it’s, you know, it reminds me of certain things that I realized recently. I’m raising two kids, that it’s, you know, just like when you talk to a person, even to an adult, when you say don’t do that, sometimes it’s very hard not to do it.
00:11:19:09 – 00:11:45:17
Unknown
Like, you know, when I drop things before, when I just had my first kid, it was very hard for me to stop saying, S-H word, you know, when something happens in front of my kid. And then one day I realize my kid saying it, and I tried so hard not to see that word, but it just came out all the time.
00:11:45:17 – 00:12:16:10
Unknown
You know, when I do certain things that I didn’t intend to. And then one day I read a book and, you know, read something that sometimes it’s easier to try to say an alternative word than that word. And that was true. I mean, it wasn’t easy still, but still I started saying, like oops, instead of the the other word and or, boy, you know, man.
00:12:16:12 – 00:12:57:05
Unknown
And it worked for me. So I think what the reason I’m talking about this is I feel like for kids it’s the same. I think all those emotions that we consider negative like, you know, depression or violence or inside of anger or sadness, all that. I think can be a good source to handle control ourselves, for example, when we’re too excited, maybe a bit of sadness would balance it out.
00:12:57:07 – 00:13:26:16
Unknown
Right. And how stoic have you? Yeah, so I’m just learning that myself, that I am becoming better in handling those emotions in a positive way. Right? I don’t know if we can say certain emotions are positive and certain emotions are negative, but you know, if we can, I’m learning how to use the negative emotions in a more positive way for myself and for kids.
00:13:26:16 – 00:14:00:02
Unknown
I think it’s the same. Maybe it’s better not to tell them not to do something in certain situations, but better to tell them how to differently react to it, which is of course not easy because, you know, when you see your kids doing something wrong, you first will automatically react to it in a in a in a in a in a negative way, I guess to for you in your mind, what is the distinction between what is positive and what is negative?
00:14:00:04 – 00:14:54:22
Unknown
Yeah, I think that’s a very good question because I think I was distinguishing the emotions based on what I think the society distinguishes as positive and negative. Usually like happiness, excitement, calmness. I guess these like other emotions I guess could be considered positive, maybe or considered positive, but like sadness, gloominess, depression, anger, something that we feel we it’s we describe as when we’re hurt emotionally maybe can be defined as negative emotions.
00:14:55:00 – 00:15:26:20
Unknown
But I might be wrong. And I think it’s a good question because I’m actually learning recently that they’re connected and we don’t have to not try not to have the emotion, negative emotions like I used to before. But we more want to use all the emotions to keep ourself in an emotional status where we want us to be in in different situations.
00:15:26:22 – 00:15:59:08
Unknown
And what I’m learning is it really helps when you learn how to use those emotions because in my such, in my case it always was there. I want to be somewhere in the middle. And that balance is sometimes not easy to find or put yourself into when you don’t know how to handle all different emotions because they’re kind of related to each other or correlated.
00:15:59:10 – 00:16:43:14
Unknown
I totally understand what you’re saying, and it kind of sounds like you’re saying like to get to a place where you can control the emotion rather than the emotion controlling you. So like, yes, can you think of an example like maybe a story or like a particular moment, maybe when something in high school, like really was challenging for you and you really struggled to control your emotion and maybe like a very specific situation, whether it was like with a fellow peer or like a teacher.
00:16:43:16 – 00:17:14:05
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah, when I was trying to study, sometimes I could not focus on because I was too excited or hyped up. Also, there was one case when like because you’re asking me, I remember that I was like going back home with two of my friends from school. I was actually in junior high school and there were these three guys bigger than us in the street.
00:17:14:07 – 00:17:40:01
Unknown
It was like a construction site. We were passing by and they called us and two of my friends looked back. I didn’t look back. And then they were like, What are you guys looking at? And then they chased us and they dragged us to the construction site and they beat my friends, you know, so badly. And they didn’t have me seeing.
00:17:40:04 – 00:18:07:19
Unknown
And they but they made me like, stay on my knees, like, kneel down and, you know, just watch it saying that they’re not hitting me because I didn’t look at them. And the reason they’re only the only reason why I didn’t look at them was because when we were passing them, I sense that they’re not, you know, type of people that we normally meet in the street sense danger.
00:18:07:19 – 00:18:37:09
Unknown
So I didn’t want to look back, but my friends looked back and and then what happened was they asked us they actually started searching like our pockets in our bags. If we have money and, you know, threatening us that, you know, because we told them we don’t have money if they find, you know, we’re going to be dead and so on.
00:18:37:11 – 00:19:16:01
Unknown
And then I forgot what the situation was. But one of the guy, I think. Yeah, one of the guy, a small guy, the smallest guy among them came to me and said, So you’re happy because your friends are beat up, but you’re not. And I was so scared. But I don’t know why I said, A you. And then all three of them started beating me up until I passed out and they were beating me up with like, like with the sticks, you know, from the construction site.
00:19:16:03 – 00:19:45:07
Unknown
So I was like, pretty badly injured. And so I remember that I couldn’t I was scared, but also angry at the same time. And I was very angry on myself, just watching my friends getting beat up, but not being a not brave enough to, you know, hit, you know, attack back or defend them. Of course, I can’t defend them, but at least, like, tell them to stop or something, Right.
00:19:45:09 – 00:20:10:11
Unknown
I just couldn’t say anything. So I was like angry at myself, scared at the same time. But then this guy just, you know, made that the other side, the angry side of me, you know, should take control over the situation, saying, like, if you and the moment I said f you, I was like, no, what did you say that?
00:20:10:13 – 00:20:32:06
Unknown
Why did you? Because they were almost about to leave. yeah. My friends were like lying on the construction site and they, you know, they searched all our bags, even inside of our shoes and socks. They made us take them off, and then they threw them far away so that we couldn’t run away. And there were about to leave.
00:20:32:06 – 00:20:56:08
Unknown
And then this guy just, I guess, wanted to test me or something. I don’t know why he or maybe just before they left, he was really curious if I’m happy or not. I don’t know. And then that question just made me like, okay, like that’s it. And that angry part of me, the angry guy just came out and said, F-you.
00:20:56:08 – 00:21:27:05
Unknown
And, you know, so I don’t know that. I just remember that situation where I couldn’t control my emotions. Negative ones, I guess. But I don’t know. My friends were happy afterwards. They were happy, not happy, but they were like saying that like that was so cool. And you said, like, F-you, like we didn’t even imagine any one of us would have said that.
00:21:27:07 – 00:21:56:09
Unknown
And but, you know, because we could even try to strike back, we were just all just getting beat up because we were so scared. And there were much bigger than we couldn’t see like anything at all. And at least one of us said something to their face. So I don’t know. Yeah. So we we were all traumatized for like, I think at least a few months, three months or so.
00:21:56:11 – 00:22:21:17
Unknown
We couldn’t go near that area anymore. So we always had to, like, go around or ask our parent. Our parents were, of course, worried too, so they would try to like give us a drop us off at our school for a while. Was this the U.S. or it was Korea or it was Korea and this and this? You said that happened in middle school.
00:22:21:20 – 00:22:49:17
Unknown
Yeah, junior high. But the kids were in were high school students who were kicked out, expelled students. Later on, I kind of found out who they were. I learned that there were kind of quite famous in the they were in that neighborhood for doing, you know, those stuff like acting like a gangster, you know? So. my gosh, that’s so crazy.
00:22:49:17 – 00:23:14:02
Unknown
I don’t think I’ve ever heard this story before. James really? I don’t know. Yeah, I’ve heard many of your stories, but this one is, I don’t know, like my. I couldn’t shut my jaw. I yeah, I don’t know. It’s like the only time when I was beaten up until I passed out, I heard from my friends later on that like, they were like, beating me up so badly.
00:23:14:02 – 00:23:39:06
Unknown
And then at a certain point, one guy kicked me in my face and I was like, on my knees, right kneeling. And the other guy also hit my head with that stick. And then like I passed out. And they were also scared because I didn’t I seemed like I wasn’t breathing for like 20 seconds or so. And then and then I moved.
00:23:39:10 – 00:24:11:13
Unknown
So they were like they got scared and they said, okay, let’s go. He’s like, done. But it seemed like they were scared too. If something actually happened to me and my friends were scared to. But then I survived that. So crazy because I know, like I have some like memories of some stories that you told us, like when you were in Russia, too.
00:24:11:15 – 00:24:56:14
Unknown
But, you know, like, of like some violence there as well. And and I just kind of remember thinking like when we were actually working together and I noticed something and I can’t I can’t remember how I noticed this or when I had this observation, but I noticed that you are very, very accommodating, Like you are so kind, like almost to a fault and like, you’re very trusting.
00:24:56:16 – 00:25:39:00
Unknown
I mean, like you give other people the benefit of the doubt, but as soon as you sense danger, it’s like all of that niceness goes away and it’s like you are done and it’s like they become your mortal enemy, at least for a duration. Yeah, it could be the the ego that I kind of told you about. I that got enhanced in Russia because in Russia I like it was quite dangerous to live as a foreigner sometimes.
00:25:39:00 – 00:26:08:19
Unknown
There were skinheads, there were like people who would like, start, you know, not to saying stuff to you actually try to hit you or even stab you. And I was in several fights in the street because of that. We’re at a restaurant, right. And I guess because I was in Russia, I started like I started and finished my university in Russia.
00:26:08:21 – 00:26:41:11
Unknown
So like most of my twenties, in my twenties, I was in Russia. So I guess that’s the only way maybe I learned how to handle unpleasant situations in the street, which is not the most civilized way. And civilized countries, maybe people don’t do that, but I remember I used to react to those situations very primitively. I wouldn’t say primitively.
00:26:41:11 – 00:27:07:10
Unknown
I would say like it was a protection, like it was a defense mechanism, like ever seen you be offensive, true to you. And I’ve always I’ve always seen like like you’re trying to protect your people. You’re trying to protect yourself. You’re right. You’re making sure that there’s no injustice at at the cost of the people that you care about, including yourself.
00:27:07:12 – 00:27:52:02
Unknown
True? yeah. And my is like a similar thing is because you’re talking about defensive mechanism. I think it’s related. My wife told me because I came back to Korea and I was always constantly looking back when we’re out and even before I go come back home before opening the door, I would look back if nobody’s behind this, because that’s what I used to do in Russia, because certain things happen sometimes just before you open the door and people try to come in to aren’t you like a third degree or fourth degree blackfellas?
00:27:52:02 – 00:28:12:22
Unknown
Yeah, in taekwondo or something. And like there’s like a lot of defense. Like, is that the reason you decided to go into law or was there? I came back from Russia and then I was trying to go to the army because that was a reason I came back from Russia. But then the government told me I can’t join the army right away.
00:28:12:22 – 00:28:44:02
Unknown
I had to wait for a year. And that was a time when Korea adopted law school for the first time. So my sister, who is studying to go to to study at a medical school, so she was studying and entrance exam to become a doctor suggested me that I why don’t you study and go to law school? And I never thought about it, but then I had nothing else to do.
00:28:44:04 – 00:29:15:12
Unknown
And I was also curious about because I used to like, you know, go over contracts in Russia, translate between companies, Russian companies and Korean companies and talk about legal terms. And I never really understood. Right. I just I would just translated based on what the dictionary says, but I don’t really know what they are. Right. Or review a contract because a Korean company wants me to review a contract in Russian, you know, or sometimes in Russian in English.
00:29:15:12 – 00:29:39:12
Unknown
And I would review it, but it’s not like, like a professional thing to do. It’s just like me reviewing if everything makes sense, if there’s no risk the company has. But, you know, even when I was doing it, I wasn’t sure why I was doing it. I was just doing it because the company’s asking me to do it.
00:29:39:14 – 00:30:05:04
Unknown
And then when I came back to Korea, when my sister said it, I thought, yeah, maybe it’s a good chance for me to learn those stuff that I was curious about. And then number two, just like you said, I had this big thing about people not accepting injustice to people I care about or to myself as well.
00:30:05:06 – 00:30:31:08
Unknown
So I thought I could be either a commercial lawyer or a human rights lawyer. But then when I went to law school, when I started getting interested in human rights, I am, I am. I’m still, I still am. And I was a journalist, too. So I was and, you know, interested in human rights and equality and all that.
00:30:31:08 – 00:31:06:15
Unknown
But then I realized in Korea, human rights lawyers are really poor. And also some of them are also in danger. Or they get threatened by people or companies they used to. These days it’s better. But when I was studying in Moscow or back in the early back in the days, it was I heard it was like that. So I thought maybe and I got married while I was in law school.
00:31:06:17 – 00:32:11:23
Unknown
So I thought maybe because I have a family now, I can’t just think about myself. I had to I have to do choose a profession that is a bit more promising for the family as well, and safe as well. So I kind of chose to be go follow the commercial path. And so that kind of like makes me wonder, like you looking back on your childhood, I’m wondering, what do you think you wish you could have learned or done differently or was taught differently or was parented differently in a way where I guess you had a more like a stronger handle or like the idea that all of the emotions that you feel are acceptable,
00:32:12:02 – 00:32:52:07
Unknown
right? And that you don’t have to be very one specific type of person. Like how do you think looking back, that could have helped you? Okay, so like recently I’m again realizing that a lot of question marks in my life becoming an exclamation mark. So I did not know why I experienced these things, why certain things were like that, why am I like this?
00:32:52:09 – 00:33:14:18
Unknown
And so on. It was full of question marks, but the older I get, it all makes sense and I realize, this is why. that’s why. Like everything that like, why was I in Russia? I don’t I didn’t even speak Russian. Why was I in Japan? You know, everything didn’t make sense. Why would why did I go to Moscow?
00:33:14:18 – 00:33:45:14
Unknown
I never wanted to be a lawyer. And I ended up not being a lawyer, not passing the bar. So why did I go there? Nothing made sense. But now everything makes sense because I’m working for a company that’s related to law. Thanks to the experience studying law and in law school, thanks to my self deciding not to focus too much of my studies in Korean law, but more international like stuff, contract law and everything.
00:33:45:16 – 00:34:16:09
Unknown
All like I couldn’t understand myself. Dude, you have the bar coming up like, you know, three years later or two years or a year later or months, a few months later, and I’m studying like international contract, you know, arbitration. And these dispute resolution, alternative dispute resolution, which the rest of the students couldn’t understand, including myself, I would just tell them, I don’t know, I just like this.
00:34:16:09 – 00:35:13:21
Unknown
I want to study this. This is what my heart says. I have to study it. Right. So I don’t know. But now it all makes sense somehow. Yeah, That’s really lovely. Knowing everything you know about how your life made sense. Looking back and all of the things that you were interested in and, you know, studying for things that interested you and you know, finding, you know, going to Russia, like not knowing the, the language and then becoming fluent in it and, you know, like all the, like curves and twists and turns and like, they make sense now, knowing all what you do now, I’m wondering going forward, as we teach like the next generation of
00:35:13:21 – 00:36:09:13
Unknown
children and, you know, including like your own daughters, how do you think we need to change our school curriculums, right, to make sure that what they’re studying for or, you know, how they’re living their lives makes it easier for them to find their footing once they become an adult? Yeah, that’s a very good question. I did work for the government Ministry of Education, and I realized that at least career Korean government is going towards the direction I think is wrong.
00:36:09:15 – 00:36:42:05
Unknown
Which is what? Which is having one like they already have a certain standard of how people should live their life. So when you’re seven years old or eight years old, you have to go to school, you have to study these subjects. You have to, you know, go to university, a good university if possible. Everybody takes the entrance exam.
00:36:42:07 – 00:37:26:09
Unknown
Most of the people trying to go to a good university, everybody studies English. It has to. And how do you assess these people? By a test. And why do you have a test to compare people who’s better? Right. So all that I think, is maybe I’m not sure if that’s the right thing to do, because the more tests you have, the more kids will only prepare for that test.
00:37:26:11 – 00:37:50:17
Unknown
And if you have too many tests, they’re going to spend all the time preparing for all those tests. They won’t have enough time to find out who they are, what good at, what they want to do, but just live another person’s life and then their life will end up being a big question mark, right? Because they won’t know.
00:37:50:17 – 00:38:17:14
Unknown
They won’t. They wouldn’t have it when they’re like too old. They’re not going to be able to find out why they exist. Okay, I’m a successful doctor because my parents wanted me to be a doctor, sent me to a lot of private schools, made sure my GPAs are high enough to go to the best universities, You know, in the world.
00:38:17:14 – 00:38:55:10
Unknown
And now I’m one of the best doctors in the world. But then even those doctors, I think, might wonder once in a while, well, what would have I done if I could actually choose what I wanted to do or what I’m really good at, or, you know, what they were not told to do. And I think so, like it might sound crazy, and I’m not sure to what extent what I’m seeing can be effective for it for our next generation.
00:38:55:10 – 00:39:25:19
Unknown
But I think we have to get rid of all these tests. You can’t take tests, but I think at least you shouldn’t give the results in like comparing people. Like it shouldn’t be the means to compare students. These students shouldn’t compare themselves to others as well. You shouldn’t tell the students either, like you’re the 10th out of 30 students or you know, you’re the 30/30 out of 30 students.
00:39:25:19 – 00:39:58:03
Unknown
Right? Because that student’s going to know that you might think something’s wrong with him, which is not true. He’s just maybe because I was the worst in one subject my entire life. Chinese characters. We learned it. We were in high school, but I just couldn’t stand it. Don’t get me wrong, my I was good at Chinese, actually, so I learned Chinese and I learned Chinese as a language.
00:39:58:03 – 00:40:26:01
Unknown
But Chinese characters. The old Asian Chinese characters. But with the Chinese characters, I just couldn’t stand even looking at the characters. Maybe because my parents tried to teach me that since I was very young. So when I was young, I heard actually I was pretty good at it. But then I was so sick and tired of it. And when I went to high school, when I heard that I have to study it again, I just hated it so much.
00:40:26:03 – 00:40:52:04
Unknown
So I didn’t even like, you know, pay attention it in school, look at like, read the books or anything. I just, you know, took the test just because I had to. So, like, I think that can happen to anybody. And if that’s that happens to somebody who’s actually good at something else, like swimming, maybe somebody was born to be the best swimmer in the world.
00:40:52:06 – 00:41:18:00
Unknown
But because there’s so many tests and, you know, this kid has to go to the to a good university, the parents don’t let this kid to have a chance to swim all his life. Then he’s going to end up not knowing what he was good at, what he could have been, you know, until he dies, maybe right until it’s too late.
00:41:18:02 – 00:41:48:13
Unknown
So I think all of this maybe, you know, there can be many reasons or many different ways to handle the situation. But I think one of the things that I think we should think about is all the tests Korea has too many tests, too many certificates, Right. Even, I don’t know, like my mom used to be a babysitter in the United States when we were there and she had like seven kids.
00:41:48:15 – 00:42:12:07
Unknown
So I had like, I grew up with those kids my mom was babysitting. But in Korea, if you want to do something like that, you need to have a certificate because you’re taking care of other kids. So, you know, there are a lot of certificates If you don’t have a certificate and do something, you’re illegal now. So you have to study for a certificate.
00:42:12:07 – 00:42:32:22
Unknown
And then like study itself actually is not that related to doing what you’re supposed to do. It’s like you want to be a movie director and you have to take a test right in writing. Right, Right. And then they will ask you like, how do you do this? Like, you know, you just people who are good at it, which will just do it.
00:42:33:00 – 00:43:07:14
Unknown
But when you have to like, you know, write about it or choose from five different options, like people who are actually good at it might not be able to, you know, answer the best way compared to others. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it’s really all about like training children to become technicians a way like if you know how to do it, if you can prove that you understand it, then you’re, you’re good.
00:43:07:14 – 00:43:49:01
Unknown
And I think a really good like analogy for this is how the Korean system teaches English. And it’s like they teach you to understand how English works, right? But they don’t teach you in a way where you actually become fluent in the links. And so it’s like, what is the purpose of education? Is it really to know how to do something and not actually do it right just so that we can prove that you can do it or that you know it, but that you don’t do it?
00:43:49:04 – 00:44:36:19
Unknown
You So just like you said, the test, should it be the purpose, It should be the means to get to the purpose, But we’re doing it the opposite. And Korea is very good at doing everything the opposite way, very inefficient, which is why this country looks efficient and successful and a very developed country from the outside. But as a person who’s in Korea and is Korean and, you know, worked for the Korean government, minister of education knows the system, I don’t want my kids to grow up as the society designed them to grow up.
00:44:36:21 – 00:45:03:11
Unknown
I want them to write fine something while they’re in school, what they want to do, what they’re good at, and then try their best to become that person that they want to be, not just like every other kids. Go to a good university and go to work for a big company and earn a lot of money and, you know, just like everybody else.
00:45:03:13 – 00:45:31:13
Unknown
So there’s no color. I don’t know. I sometimes use this word when I look at the society in Korea, it’s black and white, and only very few people are color. So it’s like watching a black and white TV in real, you’re going to see some people with some color. Whereas when you go to other countries, some other countries that are more free, you’re going to see all these people with their own color.
00:45:31:15 – 00:46:30:02
Unknown
And I think that’s what we want. Everybody should want. And also I only speak in English to my kids. I think it’s also a good means to help them understand that that thinks a little differently than other people and that already uses a different language. So he’s just slightly different than other people. So what now? They’re still young, so they they don’t they want to speak more in Korean because everybody else speaks Korean in Korea, but I think they’re going to understand later on that, you know, because in English you can have so much more information, learn so much so much more things in a different way, in a different perspective.
00:46:30:02 – 00:47:18:13
Unknown
So I think I’m hoping that it will also help them, you know, learning English, being able to read and understand in English and communicate in English or watch stuff online in English, and maybe they’re going to understand, not other people in other countries live like this or something like that. So diversity in a very broad way, I guess, is something that I’m hoping will help my kids grow more balanced and be able to control their own life and become who they want to become and live their life to the fullest.
00:47:18:15 – 00:47:27:04
Unknown
Thank you so much for listening. Any part of this episode resonated with you. Please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.