Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Stella—a singer-songwriter, artist, and teacher—about her earliest memories of being told by her teachers that she was special, and how that catalyzed her parents to investing heavily into her education. We talk about her journey across multiple countries to pursue only the finest, and what she wishes she could have pursued instead.
Computer-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:07 – 00:00:29:17
Unknown
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following. I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies.
00:00:29:19 – 00:01:01:13
Unknown
I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale, to speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems, to rethink what schools can be, what it should be.
00:01:01:19 – 00:01:27:08
Unknown
When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Stella, a singer, songwriter, artist and teacher, about her earliest memories of being told by her teachers that she was special and how that catalyzed her parents to investing heavily into her education.
00:01:27:10 – 00:01:43:20
Unknown
We talk about her journey across multiple countries to pursue only the finest and what she wishes she could have pursued instead. Here is our slightly edited conversation.
00:01:43:22 – 00:01:59:04
Unknown
So I always grew up thinking that I was better than a lot of people.
00:01:59:06 – 00:02:27:08
Unknown
Spoiler alert. That really came to bite me when I reached adulthood. But I was born an only child, and my parents, they had good education, but they really wanted me to pursue a lot more than they had. So I kind of wanted to go back a little bit. And you said, I grew up thinking that I was better than everyone else.
00:02:27:08 – 00:03:03:16
Unknown
And I’m curious, like, can you think of a story or like an instance of like how that played out or like, like a typical dialog that you had in your mind that led you to believe that there is one? So, you know, as you grow older, you tend to forget what happened in your early adolescence. But I still remember I think I was nine and my elementary school teacher, we have like parent teacher conference.
00:03:03:18 – 00:03:32:20
Unknown
And after the conference I remember at home my mom told me, you know, your teacher told us you’re really special. And I’m trying to translate this because she said this in Korean and I’m trying to get the essence of it. But it’s kind of hard, you know? But basically, the teacher told my parents, raise her well, because she’s going to be somebody.
00:03:32:22 – 00:04:11:17
Unknown
And I think that really was a turning point for my parents, too. And as a nine year old, I don’t think that really, like struck me that much. I was like, yeah, I was special. But I think growing up, I still I think I replayed that scene in my head and and especially in like middle school and high school, I thought to myself, Yeah, I am going to be of somebody because, you know, from a very early point in my life, people have told me that I’m special.
00:04:11:19 – 00:04:35:03
Unknown
And also my parents told me and that that’s not even like a single episode, you know, when I was even younger, when I was like five years old, I would go to like daycare and teachers there would also call my parents and they would be like, you know, kids this age don’t do this. But Stella, she does this.
00:04:35:05 – 00:05:10:22
Unknown
She’s the French special and she’s going to be somebody now, you know, many, many years later, I realized everybody develops at a very different pace. And that’s not an indicator of teacher success necessarily. But I think that really kind of primed my parents into thinking that, you know, I’m going to be X-Y-Z. What I reach a certain age.
00:05:11:00 – 00:05:38:14
Unknown
Yeah. And you know that. I mean, I think it’s so, like, honest of you to say this and it’s so like, it’s so authentic for you to be vulnerable about these kinds of things that, you know, maybe people don’t want to admit about their childhood or things like that. So, you know, I just wanted to like, thank you for your vulnerability and sharing that.
00:05:38:16 – 00:06:16:14
Unknown
And also, you mentioned that this was also that moment was also kind of a turning point for your parents. And I know that you moved from South Korea to Canada. And I was wondering, did that happen before or after this happened? It happened before we moved to Canada. Ironically, though, we initially moved to Canada to escape all this craze about Korean education system.
00:06:16:16 – 00:06:56:12
Unknown
Yeah, we because, you know, Korea is infamous for its very difficult education path that students must walk. And my parents wanted to broaden my horizons and which they did. I think it really did open up my eyes. But they wanted to avoid all this like, studying until midnight past midnight private tutor institution. So we moved to Canada in hopes that, you know, I get good quality education and a part of it did work.
00:06:56:12 – 00:07:31:19
Unknown
I think I did receive a more holistic education because I wasn’t just focused on, you know, math, English, blah, blah, blah, But what we what I what I guess my parents didn’t realize is that there are a lot of Korean people in Vancouver and, you know, I’m an only child and I’m the first and the last born, so I’m sure you’re a parent now.
00:07:31:19 – 00:08:08:11
Unknown
There are a lot of trial and errors, and it’s it’s tough being a parent, but I think then more than now, there were a lot less information, I guess, about raising children nowadays. I think information about how to be a good parent or, you know, how to raise a teenager. Those stuff are aligned YouTube TV books. But even just like 20 years ago, those information weren’t as readily accessible.
00:08:08:11 – 00:08:46:20
Unknown
So my parents did as best as they could. But a lot of advice they get from other parents who have experienced things before them. So what started out as a healthy, good life for Stella Immigration kind of ended up being let’s get sold to an Ivy League. Yeah, yeah. No, that’s so like, funny in the way that you have framed it.
00:08:46:22 – 00:09:32:16
Unknown
And I just kind of think about, like, you know, when you take Korean people outside of Korea, they’re still Korean. And so, like, you know, the outside culture can only do so much and, you know, like, so I’m kind of curious about like that mentality and, you know, the types of things that they did that were still inherently Korean or, you know, that didn’t exactly match maybe the the more free and like pressure free environment maybe of like northern America.
00:09:32:18 – 00:10:14:06
Unknown
I know in the past that we kind of talked a little bit about some of the things that your mother would do if she would like, you know, make sure that you would sit a certain way and that like she could see what was happening on your computer and that you couldn’t really escape her like, you know. And so I’m kind of curious about those stories and like the execu shin or the manifestations of, you know, your parents philosophies around education and particularly what they thought they were doing right in terms of, you know, getting you on that path to going to an Ivy League.
00:10:14:08 – 00:10:51:08
Unknown
Well, I guess it is hard immigrating to a completely different country even if you do speak the language. So I think the first thing they sought out was seeking community. And Korean churches, I think are always the easiest community to access because, you know, I guess the group of people there are a little bit more guaranteed to share released similar values with you in terms of faith at least.
00:10:51:10 – 00:11:21:08
Unknown
So that’s where we started off and that’s that’s where we really got a lot of the advice. And first thing that happened that that was different from my peers was even choosing to go to a different secondary school compared to my friends. So in Canada we have secondary school which run from eighth grade to 12th grade. We don’t have solely middle school and high school.
00:11:21:10 – 00:11:51:16
Unknown
And I went to a private Catholic school. So what my friends like 90% of my friends would do is go to an affiliated Catholic secondary school, which was a lot closer. And that’s that’s where everybody went and that’s where I thought I was going to go as well. But honestly, really, out of the blue, one day my mom was like, why don’t we try for this school?
00:11:51:16 – 00:12:20:08
Unknown
It’s it’s the best school in Vancouver. All the smart kids go there and, you know, we’ll just try it out. You don’t have to get in. And also, people prepare years for this and we’ve only known about it for like less than a year. There’s a really low chance that we’re going to get in anyway. So if all goes on, well, then you go to you go to your high school that you were originally going to go to.
00:12:20:08 – 00:12:52:13
Unknown
And if things work out, maybe we can go. And, you know, honestly, I didn’t think I was going to get it, so I went along with it. So that’s when I first started this like entrance exam preparation. So that’s when I first started as like secondary school admission test, first started going to have one after school over weekends.
00:12:52:13 – 00:13:22:23
Unknown
And I was in seventh grade. Yeah. yeah. So elementary school run from first grade to seventh grade in in Canada. So I was still in elementary school and I prep, then I took the exam and I got a really low score and I remember I was crying in the car, you know, like even though I did it, like, I really want to go to this school.
00:13:23:01 – 00:14:01:13
Unknown
I did. It was like my first time studying for an entrance exam. And like I said, I was always primed to think that I could do it all and I would always excel. And to be honest, the score wasn’t as great as I thought it was. So that was one of the first kind of failures I experienced. But surprisingly, I got in again, which was kind of not dangerous.
00:14:01:13 – 00:14:29:06
Unknown
I don’t want to be dangerous, but which was another point in my life where I was kind of forcing myself to believe maybe I am special because I didn’t do that well. But I. I got in. Maybe I am lucky. I am special, you know? So that was that was the first time. And then when we got into the school, it’s a completely different environment.
00:14:29:06 – 00:14:54:13
Unknown
In elementary school, I barely studied, but here it is, a university prep school, which means everybody is studying at a very different level. And a lot of these kids have been in that school since kindergarten because it’s like K through 12 school and they only pick like a certain number of kids for a new class in eighth grade.
00:14:54:15 – 00:15:30:20
Unknown
So it was a completely different world. And from then it has never been the same. All of a sudden, my mom was communicating with other moms at the school who are also Korean. There were like five Korean kids, including myself in our in our class, and they were sharing information about which tutor they need to get. And initially it wasn’t even that I wanted to go to a US university.
00:15:30:22 – 00:15:58:10
Unknown
We just thought, you know, McGill is a really good school. UBC is a really good school, like Canadian schools, like Cork here, Canadian schools. Those were our goals. And then we realized, other Korean kids here are actually aiming for U.S. universities, they’re aiming for Princeton, they’re aiming for Harvard. Do we do so? What do we need to do in order to do that?
00:15:58:12 – 00:16:35:08
Unknown
they’re studying outside of the school curriculum to match the US university curriculum. Okay. That we should do that too. they’re doing sports and music and volunteer at these places. Okay, We should do that too. So it was a lot of kind of shadowing other students is previous work in order to match the standards. So those were some of the things that we started doing.
00:16:35:08 – 00:17:07:06
Unknown
And like I said, yeah, my mom was my manager, she was a manager and what was what was quite different from my peers other than the five Korean kids in my class, was that we were we were basically working like celebrities with a manager with our parents, mostly our mothers, because a lot of our fathers were in Korea, most of our mothers knowing exactly where we were, what we needed to do next.
00:17:07:08 – 00:17:46:15
Unknown
If we needed to go from place to place, we would always have arrived. Whereas a lot of our other friends who weren’t on this path, you know, they had relatively more freedom and they weren’t taking academics as seriously as we were since eighth grade. So. So that was really. Yeah, different. Yeah. So I feel like, you know, as you’re talking about this experience that you had, I don’t know if you watch this or if we talked about it, but there’s a Korean drama called Sky Castle.
00:17:46:17 – 00:18:13:06
Unknown
Yeah, And I just I can just see you. I’m like, putting you in that drama, and I’m like, it kind of sounds almost like that. But, you know, obviously that that drama is like, way dramatized. But I don’t think that, you know, when I look at the pieces of what you’re saying, like the overview is kind of what we experienced in watching that drama in a way.
00:18:13:08 – 00:18:44:01
Unknown
Would you agree with that? That’s exactly what I would tell people. We left Korea to avoid Sky Castle, and we landed in Vancouver Sky Castle. That’s exactly what I would tell people. That’s exactly it. Without the murder. Yeah. Yeah. gosh. Yeah. my gosh. So when I think back to that time, like, that’s a lot of pressure.
00:18:44:03 – 00:19:39:08
Unknown
And the fact that you actually did go to a really good university and things like that, I’m thinking, you know, your parents succeeded in that mission. Like you succeed it in that mission. And I’m just kind of thinking like, do you have any regrets? Like, you know, after maybe you graduated and see how maybe other people didn’t have to go through that or, you know, when I guess I guess in comparison to what your friends who may not have gone through that kind of process had experienced in what they might have had instead, do you ever regret that rigorous process of like high pressure and competition, or do you think you enjoyed it?
00:19:39:10 – 00:20:14:14
Unknown
You know, regret is is a word or is a is a value that really, like hits home for me because it’s something that I held on to for a really long time. And it’s only taken me, you know, it hasn’t been long since I started to tell myself that I don’t regret anything and I say it. But, you know, it’s inevitable for me to feel it time to time.
00:20:14:16 – 00:20:48:23
Unknown
But it is something that I constantly try to tell myself, because in spite all that and after all that, I think the person I grew to be is okay. Like I think I have grown to be a pretty decent person aside from my achievements and whatnot. I think just internally I have a lot of internal turmoil and I have a lot of flaws and there are a lot of parts of me that I don’t appreciate, but I think that really makes me who I am and what I am.
00:20:48:23 – 00:21:21:07
Unknown
Try to pursue trying to reach a wider audience and trying to spread a positive message. I think maybe those are necessary hardships that I have to go through in order for me to resonate with other people and to empathize and to really kind of be able to speak from their perspectives. So a short answer is no, I don’t regret it.
00:21:21:07 – 00:21:53:23
Unknown
I think those might have been necessary steps, but yes, it has been something that has held me back for a really long time. In what kind of way? So, as you know, I mean, like yourself, an artistic person, a creative person, and pursuing music and the arts has been something that that has been my passion for a long time since a very young age.
00:21:54:01 – 00:22:40:19
Unknown
And for a very long time, I regretted not starting this earlier, especially because what I wanted to pursue was predominantly in Korea and Korea being a very competitive market for anything, not just the arts. Age is a pretty significant factor when it comes to pursuing, especially the arts. And I wanted to do it since a very young age, but my parents are very objective to put it in a positive way.
00:22:41:00 – 00:23:13:12
Unknown
Also, I’m like very worried that I’m like villainizing my parents. I love my parents. They went above and beyond for me and I’m very grateful for what they did. They’re great. But, you know, I love your mom. If you’re watching this, I love you. But that was my but they’re very objective. And I also admit, like in hindsight, I wasn’t a great singer.
00:23:13:12 – 00:23:46:07
Unknown
I wasn’t a great dancer. I wasn’t that special. I was average and and I think they were very straightforward with that since a very young age. That’s why I still to this day, don’t really sing in front of my parents that much. And I’m really comfortable singing in front of a random crowd like thousand people. People I don’t know.
00:23:46:09 – 00:24:15:23
Unknown
I can sing, dance, make a fool of myself. I don’t really care. The toughest crowd is my mom and my dad. And if I know my parents are in the crowd somewhere, that just kind of like makes my heart skip a beat. Interesting. Why? I mean, I can kind of understand a little bit just based on my experience with my mother and the singing and the criticality and the judgment.
00:24:15:23 – 00:24:59:16
Unknown
But I’m curious for you specifically why, you know, like there are many instances, but just to name a few, like I would be singing just randomly in the house and as a side comments, you know, one of my parents, I won’t say which one one of my parents would just be like, you’ll never be a singer singing like that.
00:24:59:18 – 00:25:37:05
Unknown
And the first really big courage I took was to audition for a solo space in like, a concert, like a biannual concert that we do at our secondary school, like a Christmas concert. And that was the first time I ever publicly kind of released the fact that I like singing and I and I want to sing. And I, I got in and I was given an opportunity to sing my solo.
00:25:37:06 – 00:26:17:14
Unknown
And obviously it wasn’t as good, you know. And I remember the drive back home. My parents obviously came and supported me and I didn’t want to ask, but I had to ask like, what did you guys think of it? And, you know, it was it was the the typical you know, it was it was good. But, you know, you really strain your voice or.
00:26:17:16 – 00:26:50:13
Unknown
Yeah, your the way you sing, you know it’s not healthy right. Because it I’m straining. And so they were giving me a lot of like critical feedback. and many, many years later, you know, I would, I would drop these instances, you know. you were really critical of me back then. And their reasoning was, because nobody else will tell you this.
00:26:50:13 – 00:27:30:21
Unknown
We’re the only ones who will say this to you straight up, because especially in North America, it’s a pretty cushy environment. As in in Korea, I think people are a bit more critical of each other’s accomplishments because, again, it’s a pretty competitive and densely populated country. But in the States or in Canada, you do something remotely kind of good and people are like, You’re amazing, you’re so talented, you’re great, and libraries are like that, Great.
00:27:30:23 – 00:28:04:19
Unknown
So I think my parents were just trying to help me be more objective of myself in the fear that I get my hopes up at a different place where I’m not as talented or I’m not as gifted as I seem to think, or others may make me to think. So I think that was their reasoning. But to be honest, I think you are the most objective critic of yourself.
00:28:04:19 – 00:28:36:17
Unknown
And I knew even that a young, not a great singer, I wasn’t that good. But I think what I wanted from my parents, even though I know it’s not true, is you’re the best singer, honey. You’re you’re amazing. I think that’s what a lot of just kids want to hear, right? Because we know we’re not that great, but we tell ourselves that what we sometimes need to hear is just our parents being like, You’re the best singer.
00:28:36:17 – 00:29:19:15
Unknown
You’re the best performer I ever know. Yeah, And that’s so sad to me because, you know, obviously I didn’t know you when you know, you were in secondary school or when you were in elementary to know like what your talent was like. But just having known you for almost five years now, can you believe it’s been that long or longer that you are so talented and I don’t want to be, you know, one of those people that, you know, tell you this just like in authentically, But I think you have never not moved me with your singing.
00:29:19:17 – 00:29:57:15
Unknown
And I just kind of think back to how we give feedback to people that we care about. And this idea that you shared about, like, you know, you were looking for validation and love from and support from your parents, not necessarily criticism. And because, like you said, we are our best critics and we have the best objectivity in our world, like we don’t really need that external feedback from people that are supposed to just give us love.
00:29:57:17 – 00:30:27:06
Unknown
And I think about like, you know, my mother and how like I should also have the same disclaimer. She did the best that she could. She loved me and, you know, all of those things. But she was very critical of me and my creative abilities because she herself was a creative and in many ways, her criticality shaped my own criticality.
00:30:27:06 – 00:31:05:10
Unknown
And it has helped me in many different ways throughout my life. And so I do thank her for that. But I also the inner child is also very wounded from not having received the love from my mother in those creative pursuits at a young age. And I just wonder for you, like, how do you think that parents in general, whether they’re yours or other other parents, should go about giving feedback to, you know, their children?
00:31:05:10 – 00:31:47:01
Unknown
Should it be that they should just give you love unconditionally and help you find your way? And like naturally without any kind of critical feedback? Or do you wish that there is an alternative in which it could have been constructive and it wouldn’t have wounded your your inner child? well, tough question, because I think I think something in theory is definitely quite different when you practice it in real life.
00:31:47:03 – 00:32:29:06
Unknown
And well, I’m not a parent, so I can’t say, but I know it’s not easy and but I don’t remember exactly where. But it’s quite famous of, you know, this developmental psychologist talking about how exactly you should praise your children or how to compliment them. You know, and like a certain age, you should not compliment them about something that they earn for such as their look or, you know, it’s these comments like, you’re a genius.
00:32:29:10 – 00:32:58:01
Unknown
you’re so gifted, you’re so talented, you’re so handsome. Those are traits that they never earned or they never worked for. And that is basically me praising something that they cannot control and that actually puts a lot of strain on them. And that is something that I also experienced growing up, where being praised for things that I never worked for.
00:32:58:03 – 00:33:25:23
Unknown
you’re pretty, right? you’re so gifted. she’s going to be somebody special. I never worked for those things. I was just five. I was just a little bit better at, like matching block Right. I didn’t really work for though, right. But instead compliment them on something that they did and that doesn’t even sound like a compliment.
00:33:25:23 – 00:33:59:07
Unknown
But like a five year old will draw a butterfly around and saying like, you’re a such a great artist. Say, it’s a butterfly. how colorful it is. Right? That really struck me when I first heard it. And I was like, Wow, I think had I grown up with those compliments at a very young age, obviously when you grow older, there are other types of compliments and nurturing and love you should give them.
00:33:59:07 – 00:34:31:19
Unknown
But not priming your child to be or not holding your child to an expectation that they never signed up for. I think that is that is really critical and I think that’s what I really try to do to my nieces. Even though they’re a bit older and they already grown up in Korea, have these unhealthy ideas about what’s good.
00:34:31:21 – 00:35:04:20
Unknown
Like, for instance, you know, they are on a little bit of a chubbier side, let’s say, and they even though they are still like they’re healthy and, you know, they’re not stressing over losing weight, but they just like back handedly just say these comments like, I wish I was skinny, I wish I was prettier or, I’m more you’re so lucky because you’re so pretty.
00:35:04:22 – 00:35:37:14
Unknown
Right? And I always try to tell them, you know, beauty is, really think of a beauty, thought everything and you know, what really matters is what’s inside. Or is this just like small things like that? I really try to tell them or, you know, my nieces will tell me, you know, I thought second place, I didn’t even work that hard for it, but I bought second place and.
00:35:37:14 – 00:36:05:15
Unknown
They tell me as if it’s a proud thing. And, you know, well, congratulations on getting second place. Good for you. But, you know, you shouldn’t be too happy about getting something for what you didn’t work for. You know, you do things like that. I think I try to do that with them. Thinking back to all the compliments and all the all the thought processes that I had as a child.
00:36:05:17 – 00:36:29:03
Unknown
But it’s not easy even to my nieces. It’s not easy, let alone my child, who, you know, don’t even get me started. I don’t know. I’m not a parent. So, yeah, I had yeah, no, it is definitely tricky. And you’re right. Like, it is easier to think about than to actually put in practice. And there’s just so much that I’m unlearning as a parent.
00:36:29:05 – 00:36:58:21
Unknown
And and something that I have been thinking about is that, you know, our cultures are very critical on people and there’s a lot of expectations, especially placed on women and, you know, like if a if a dad makes a mistake, you know, people will be like, well, at least he tried, you know, And then when a mom makes a mistake, it’s like, why don’t you know any better?
00:36:58:23 – 00:37:22:21
Unknown
You know, like you I know you just became a mom last year, but how come you didn’t download all the information that you should know about how to be a good mom? Like, how were you? Not so great at it right now, right? So, like, moms don’t really get the benefit of the doubt because there’s like, this expectation that we should just know how to parent.
00:37:22:23 – 00:37:45:21
Unknown
And like that aside, just a lot of expectations that we have on people in general about what they should be doing, how they should be doing it, and, you know, encourage Jiya, It’s no different. And I want to say it’s especially more challenging because it is a smaller nation and, you know, the competition and the pressure is just so cutthroat.
00:37:45:23 – 00:38:52:19
Unknown
So I was kind of curious, like, what are some parts that you explored after and what do you do now? That’s a great question. To give you a short answer. I am not doing anything right now. As in I am currently unemployed, unaffiliated, staying home and still soul searching, but kind of rewinding, starting at post, graduating college, I came straight to Korea, kind of half as a reasoning for a soul searching and half kind of just escaping the states going back to college.
00:38:52:21 – 00:39:23:11
Unknown
You know, it was it was like one of the toughest for ish years of my life. And. Well, you asked me about after college, but I’m like, going all the way back to again high school as in we kind of talked about, you know, how my mom was a momager. And you ask me what kind of child I was.
00:39:23:13 – 00:40:10:06
Unknown
And I have always been a kind of a rebellious ish, good goody goody goody kind of. Okay, let me rephrase that. A goody two shoes try to be rebellious kind of child in that I like sticking to the rules, being an anxious person. You know, I actually find a lot of anxiety deviating from standardized path. And that’s potentially why I could succeed academically, because even though I wanted to explore, I always was anxious about not meeting the standards of what was expected of me.
00:40:10:08 – 00:40:58:14
Unknown
So having a with helped because I didn’t really have to do this by myself. I was I had an external force pushing me, so she was my motor and I still remember Summer before going into college, I was absolutely petrified of going to college because I knew I had set myself up for failure because my mom wasn’t going to college with me and it was the first time I was doing anything by myself.
00:40:58:16 – 00:41:28:17
Unknown
And I knew I knew so deeply that I wasn’t going to do well because I had never learned how to fall. I had never learned how to truly fail. And I knew I was going to experience that in college. And and, you know, your gut instinct is almost always true. I failed so hard in college. I was so lost.
00:41:28:19 – 00:41:58:08
Unknown
I mean, what I could do in high school, you know, cramming for exams, pulling all nighters, and then just memorizing like half a textbook overnight. Those kind of things don’t work in college. Right? Especially like at an institution where I want to those kids are prepared and they’re they’re kids that have been doing it by themselves as like a young age.
00:41:58:08 – 00:42:35:06
Unknown
So they got the grit, they’re healthy, and then they’re with me. So that’s why I kind of have escaped it, because I was already kind of an outlaw in university because people were taking standardized steps. Majority of my friends happened to be pre-med, and I was pre-med too. So, you know, they were doing internship since sophomore year. They had, you know, lab experiences.
00:42:35:08 – 00:43:12:10
Unknown
And then there was just depressed, anxious Stella in her dorm room, not knowing what the heck she has to do, half knowing. I know I need to do this, but I just can’t. I can’t get myself to do it because I was I was so emotionally unstable. Right. So I still remember in college, I was just thinking to myself, just get through the college, just graduate, Just do the minimum or as much as you can so that you can at least graduate.
00:43:12:12 – 00:43:54:03
Unknown
And that is exactly what I did. And as soon as I graduated, I just came to Korea and that’s when my soul searching began, and that’s when I started to relearn everything by myself. Kind of happened in college. But the cost of failure was very high and college tuition was very expensive. So I think trial and error failing, falling started happening after university.
00:43:54:05 – 00:44:42:01
Unknown
First thing I learned how to do was getting myself financially independent, which is also something that I never learned how to do. Thank you parents for paying that inordinate amount of tuition. So I came out of university debt free. Thank you. My parents can’t say the same. I’m sorry, but so just getting a job. And to be honest, as a psychology major in Korea, not having masters degree, one of the quickest jobs that I could get was in education.
00:44:42:03 – 00:45:08:14
Unknown
And I’m not downplaying education by any means, but especially in Korea. Right. If you were an English speaker, that is one of the easier jobs, more accessible jobs that you can get. So that’s where I started. And my thought processes were this is just kind of a side job and I have something else I want to pursue, which was music, which was the entertainment industry.
00:45:08:16 – 00:45:45:20
Unknown
So I said myself up for singing lessons and I started so learn how to sing. I actually didn’t get that great of vocal lessons because I signed up for a role in Academy, but I still learned how to sing, learned how to make covers, met people who were sharing the same dreams as me. Yeah, that that has that happened for a couple of years.
00:45:45:20 – 00:46:20:12
Unknown
And then I switched jobs and that’s when things kind of changed. My first job, the job that we had together, it was relatively a freer job in a sense that working hours were quite definite and I had a lot of basically it had a good work life balance. I would say the job provided a good work life balance and then I switched jobs.
00:46:20:12 – 00:47:08:03
Unknown
Basically, I went to a university consulting job, me consulting students on how to get into other universities. Again, I landed the job because of my background coming from a relatively good school. They saw that I had credentials, so that’s what I started doing. And that job did not really provide me with a good work life balance because you’re not just teaching them, you’re basically almost taking care of somebody.
00:47:08:05 – 00:47:41:22
Unknown
One of the biggest critical points in somebody’s life. And I had like 40 kids that I was looking after. I know, right? So I had no work, I had no life. It was no work life balance. It was just work, work. If I had maybe a little bit of life. So that’s that’s what my music pursuing kind of subsided because I was focused on work and it wasn’t where I could just slack off at work.
00:47:42:00 – 00:48:11:04
Unknown
Like again, it’s not something that you could do. You’re you’re in charge of somebody. It’s like university admittance. You can’t just laugh it off, or at least not when you feel responsible for it. And I really felt responsible for it. So that’s when my music pursuing kind of subsided and I started to be more serious about helping students get into university.
00:48:11:06 – 00:48:53:00
Unknown
And that’s when my values really clashed with that job. Because personally, I don’t think going to a good university matters. I’ve said it. I don’t think so because look at me, I’ve come full circle. I went through the very standardized, if not what they call it, elite steps. I’ve gotten all the great education, did all the extracurricular activities, aced and received prizes and went to a good university and here I am.
00:48:53:02 – 00:49:33:15
Unknown
I’m still soul searching. I’ve come full circle. If not, I’m restarting everything. And a lot of these students I was consulting not all of them, but at least 70% of them were pursuing US university to escape Korea. So it was kind of the other way around and they were basically trying to escape. A lot of them had kind of experience academic hardships.
00:49:33:15 – 00:50:04:04
Unknown
And there were in Korea, we call it Coping Ewok. Basically, it’s escaping, going to a different country, immigrating to a different country to escape reality. In Korea, a lot of them were doing that. And I was at a position where even though I knew them going to the states weren’t going to change much, at least maybe short term, yes it will.
00:50:04:04 – 00:50:33:23
Unknown
But in the long term, there is a high chance that it’s, again, going to come full circle and they’re going to have to relearn to do everything by themselves as somebody getting paid to put kids to school. I kind of had to tell them to toughen up. Things will change when you go to university. I try my best to tell them, you know, you don’t have to go to Harvard.
00:50:34:02 – 00:51:09:10
Unknown
You can still do great by going to relatively lesser and not as highly ranked university. But again, the stakeholders aren’t just students, it’s parents. It’s the company, right? So that’s where my values really clash. Then I realized this is not a sustainable job for me because that’s directly against what I’m trying to tell kids, right? I’m to tell them, that’s not all.
00:51:09:11 – 00:51:44:12
Unknown
And here I was kind of basically telling them that it was. So that’s what I also started to think, okay, then what else can I do? So I told you, I decided that I would really restart everything and go back to school this time because I want to. Mom and I did a lot of self-exploration. Ask myself what I really like.
00:51:44:12 – 00:52:30:22
Unknown
And I came to a conclusion that I really wanted to go to that school. And the first year I tried doing that kind of while I was working and that did not work out because studying is a full time job and when you already have an over working full time actual job, it’s impossible. So in 2013 I left that company and I started to study full time and I did that for a year and the result wasn’t what I wanted.
00:52:31:00 – 00:53:09:22
Unknown
Again, it’s a very competitive place, especially not when you’re entering as a freshman. But I was looking into transfer options because I had already graduated university, but they only pick one or two students per year. So it’s very competitive and it’s very difficult. And I tried it for a year and I didn’t get in. I got through the first round, but the second round I couldn’t get in.
00:53:10:00 – 00:54:05:03
Unknown
So. So here I am where I will go to next. I’m not sure. So I’m still self exploring. Yeah, but yeah, so I kind of want to rewind back to what you said about that anxiety that you felt that that tumultuous ness or that turbulence that you felt when you were about to go to college because your mother wasn’t going to be following you and you said, you know, I’m going to be going by myself, Like I’m not going to have that pressure to achieve the things that my mother helped me achieve.
00:54:05:05 – 00:54:50:19
Unknown
And I’m just kind of thinking about, first of all, I think it’s incredibly amazing that you had that insight at that time. And also when you talk about like and then you also mentioned in this part where you were going to go back to school this time because you wanted to go to school, I find those to be very interesting because the the insight that I’m downloading from that is that you were following this path not for yourself, but for to achieve or to meet the expectations that were placed on you externally.
00:54:50:21 – 00:55:22:21
Unknown
And I’m just it’s just so sad because time and time again and I realize that for my own life as well that why why do we have these external expectations for our children to do things that they might not want to do while guaranteeing somewhat in the messaging that if they do X, Y, or Z, that they’re going to become successful and they’re going to be, you know, prepared for the real world or something like that.
00:55:22:23 – 00:55:59:08
Unknown
But in many ways, I feel like, you know, compulsory education is all about getting you into the grind of meeting other people’s expectations and doing things for other people and not for yourself. And that’s why there’s like this turmoil that happens at turbulence, that inner turbulence that happens of, you know, you even mentioned like the values clashing when you were, you know, consulting with university or students who wanted to go to university in the U.S. Right.
00:55:59:08 – 00:56:48:02
Unknown
That there was a clash of values of university isn’t really the biggest thing that’s going to help you in life. And So when I look at all of these points, I’m wondering for you, what do you wish you had in place? What Kinds of activities or tasks or classes or subjects or support, Would you have wanted to have during your compulsory education or even in college about how to actually live your life on your terms and do what it is that you feel like you were placed on this earth to do?
00:56:48:04 – 00:57:29:03
Unknown
I don’t know if this will be plausible, but if I had the opportunity to shadow different jobs, I think that would have helped immensely even now. So I think one of the first things that I did before even deciding to go to that school was to work at a at an animal hospital. And I worked there for six, seven months because I knew that what I think as an outsider might be very different.
00:57:29:03 – 00:58:01:03
Unknown
In reality, once you actually start doing the job. So that was the first thing I did to just start working. And I realized that it really was something that I was looking for. I even I really like the crazy, busy, sleepless nights, and that’s when I knew, okay, I want to do this, or at least it’s something that I am doing it for me, not for anybody else.
00:58:01:05 – 00:58:32:08
Unknown
And I had we had that experiences younger, right? You’re able to shadow not just doctors and not just lawyers, but even you know teachers, not as a student, singers, other social workers. You know, if we we had that if not just one day or two, you know, actual like significant amount of time throughout couple of years, you are able to shadow multiple jobs.
00:58:32:10 – 00:59:13:22
Unknown
You were able to decide what really fits your values. I think that’s something that’s so brilliant. I think I remember those a professor that I really liked and I remember sharing to her that I wish life or that classes felt more like apprenticeships and that, you know, like the were kind of there taking yuan and incorporating them into their lives and showing them, you know, point A to point B about what their life looks like.
00:59:14:00 – 00:59:39:12
Unknown
And I feel like I’ve spoken to people who feel like, you know, when they go off to college, they feel so alone and they’re just like, experience this newfound freedom, you know? And I think that’s when it can get really dangerous because they’ve never had that freedom. And so they do like the craziest things. You know, they do drugs for the first time.
00:59:39:12 – 01:00:08:05
Unknown
They drink themselves until they pass out for the first time. They like go to countries and party so hard that, you know, sometimes terrible things happen to them. And it’s because we don’t really give them that freedom to exercise control over their life slowly and in the amounts that are appropriate to their developmental stage at an earlier life.
01:00:08:07 – 01:00:36:16
Unknown
And I feel like that’s what’s really scary to me about Korean culture is that the parents are like, You are totally under all of our control until you go to college, and then that’s when you go off and do your thing. And and I remember like teaching at universities and like the freshmen and sophomores barely ever came to class because they were just so drunk and they were just so, like, tired of, like, getting into college.
01:00:36:16 – 01:01:25:01
Unknown
That college becomes like party ground for them. And so, you know, I mean, I’m not saying that this was your experience, but it’s very like there’s a lot of pressure. And when that pressure goes away and we have all this freedom to explore, we don’t have the support when we need it the most, I feel like. And so I love this idea of shadowing and like doing this more than for just a few days, but like over a significant amount of time to see like what life really is like and what happens when you have a stake, when you can actually influence and have an impact in that community that you are shadowing or being
01:01:25:01 – 01:01:56:12
Unknown
a part of. And when we think about the support that you wish you had and this brilliant idea you shared about, you know, shadowing people at an earlier age before you go off to college, when you look at all of those things, which are really great ideas, how do you think that we can start implementing them into the society right now?
01:01:56:13 – 01:02:33:00
Unknown
well, the the E easiest in terms of not actually doing it, but the simplest thing I can think of is just literally adding a subject that does that and how you are. I don’t know if you even should be assessed by this. I think this is something that you shouldn’t be assessed. If anything, assessment maybe could be based on how diligent you were in actually partaking in this.
01:02:33:00 – 01:03:03:21
Unknown
Maybe. But that’s also kind of tough because if it really isn’t for you, you might not be diligent. And I’m not sure if forcing somebody to do something they genuinely don’t like is is really good for education. Although education is not just about doing something you like, it’s also learning to do things you don’t like anyways. Yeah, just adding a subject at what age?
01:03:03:21 – 01:03:31:01
Unknown
I’m not sure what age is appropriate in terms of development or psychology, but at an age where students are genuinely kind of starting to wonder, Who am I? What do I like? What do I want to do? So I’m guessing maybe around puberty we could be adding those self-exploration subjects which one they will hate because they will think it’s useless.
01:03:31:03 – 01:04:05:06
Unknown
But I really think it is really necessary. And I think if that really comes into play, they will hate it less because that will become of the norm. They will hate it because, this is useless. I need to do other things that are more relevant, whereas ones that actually start becoming relevant, maybe they will look forward to it and be like, I’m so excited to figure out what I want to do and what I really like.
01:04:05:08 – 01:04:43:15
Unknown
I think that would be great that students actually look forward to a subject and have a safe environment and support for self-exploration. Yeah, So I think the the world is very different from when you were younger because it’s different at least it’s definitely different from when I was younger. And I think we have the same Zodiac sign. And so I know you’re at least 12 years younger than me.
01:04:43:17 – 01:05:37:07
Unknown
And so I’m thinking, you know, it’s probably very different from when I was younger and maybe just somewhat different from when you were younger. But I’m curious, like if you look at some of the challenges that you faced of, like immigrating from Korea to Canada and then from going through all of the competition and going through all of the hoops of meeting people’s expectations and then realizing that, you know, you’re still figuring it out as you go, that the promise that you were given of giving all of your free hours to studying and, you know, making it to the next cutoff and realizing that you don’t have that support now and still you’re still having
01:05:37:07 – 01:06:09:07
Unknown
to figure out how to live your own life based on all of the challenges that you went through and are still going through. What do you think is one thing that you would change so that someone who might be facing the same situation as you wouldn’t have had to struggle or wouldn’t to struggle as much to be completely honest, like completely honest.
01:06:09:09 – 01:07:02:04
Unknown
I think when it comes down to why there is struggle and it might sound really off, but I think it comes down to money, as in if will operate. I think part of the reason why I’m also currently struggling and I have struggled and my people struggle is because at the end of the day, what is expected of us is and what success is to be able to earn a certain amount of money.
01:07:02:06 – 01:07:48:15
Unknown
And what has happened in my life is my family was relatively well-off and they were able to send me to those institutions. However, my parents are millionaires. They had a finite amount of resources and basically what happened was they poured all those resources to my education. So basically they depleted their resources. And what happens when parents do that is they become anxious, right?
01:07:48:17 – 01:08:26:04
Unknown
Because they have invested basically all their savings to their child’s education. And even though that is out of love and out of self sacrifice and they’re not necessarily doing that, expecting something in return, in hindsight, it is kind of an investment that they make right, Hoping that what they have invested into their child’s education, the child will flourish and will earn multiple folds of what they have invested.
01:08:26:06 – 01:09:30:07
Unknown
And that will perhaps come back to them. As you know. And that is a, again, risky investment Exhibit A So if I could change anything, I would not go to Duke, because that was a very, very expensive investment. And had I just gone to a Canadian university when they offered me scholarships that I could go to university for free and have my parents save that money and actually invested in land or anything else, I think that could have garnered a lot more, you know, value in terms of monetary value.
01:09:30:09 – 01:10:08:02
Unknown
And again, I don’t think your undergraduate education is really significant whether you go to, you know, first rank university in the states versus relatively decent university locally because undergraduate education. Yes. I think what you get from higher education, it’s not just education, it’s, you know, connections. Yes, that’s all good. But I think those things, you can also get outside of university as well.
01:10:08:04 – 01:10:52:05
Unknown
And I think it was a very expensive investment and I’m very grateful for it. But had we saved that, I think that could have also provided more cushioning for self exploration, right? Because self exploration costs money for you to be exploring yourself or flying the world without having to be constrained by, you know, money. I think that’s that’s ideal.
01:10:52:07 – 01:11:21:13
Unknown
So yeah, if I could give advice to anybody who is walking a similar path, don’t spend that much on education. Honestly, at the end of the day, stave off that or use it for yourself because happy parents make happy children. Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links the show notes.
01:11:21:15 – 01:11:22:13
Unknown
Until next time.