Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Yonny—a paralegal and immigration justice advocate—about his earliest memories of growing up in Mexico, and being raised by his grandparents for most of his childhood. He compares the education systems between Mexico and the United States, and how the differences informed the types of activities he chose to pursue. We also talk about his journey of learning English, the teacher who held higher expectations for him and inspired him to pursue a career in journalism, and what led to him becoming a paralegal and working to provide resources and assistance to immigrant families.
Here is our edited conversation.
Computer-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:00 – 00:00:28:10 Unknown Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety. I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned in the decades following. I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies.
00:00:28:12 – 00:00:58:13 Unknown I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale, to speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems, to rethink what schools can be, what it should be.
00:00:58:13 – 00:01:30:07 Unknown When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Yoni, a paralegal and immigration justice advocate, about his earliest memories of growing up in Mexico and being raised by his grandparents for most of his childhood. He compares the education systems between Mexico and the United States and how the differences inform the types of activities he chose to pursue.
00:01:30:09 – 00:01:52:07 Unknown We also talk about his journey of learning English. The teacher who held higher expectations for him and inspired him to pursue a career in journalism and what led to him becoming a paralegal and working to provide resources and assistance to immigrant families. Here is our edited conversation.
00:01:52:09 – 00:02:11:06 Unknown I also think that I wasn’t happy child in. I think it was happy child until I was about ten, and from 10 to 15, I think I became a little lonely and upset.
00:02:11:08 – 00:02:40:11 Unknown I first thought that it was because I wasn’t with my parents. I was being raised my grandparents, and I don’t know, I always felt like me said something. So after from 10 to 15, I was I was very let’s say it in lonely, I think Now, linking back to the other part of your question, I think there was a great student until about ten.
00:02:40:13 – 00:03:11:04 Unknown To be honest, when I turn ten and I enter secondary school in Mexico, I think it’s called Middle East Middle School here in the US. I started dealing with a lot of more, I will say, feelings in like, you know, changing the way I learn. And so people in I think that’s when I started doing the worse thing in school, both academically and like behaviorally.
00:03:11:06 – 00:03:45:19 Unknown But I definitely have memories of not my teachers, but, you know, my counselor that we had talking to my grandma and telling her that she knew I was smart because like, you know, I talk like grasp concepts, but there was something wrong with me. And so so I remember that very clearly. And I don’t know, I never asked my grandma exactly like what what she did with that information or like what you believe was wrong with me.
00:03:45:21 – 00:04:32:20 Unknown Yeah, that’s. That’s how I, I describe myself. I have a question about that. So when you said you were pretty. So can I just clarify? So you were a little bit a sad child until you were ten or you were happy until you happy and happy, kid. Until I was ten. Like from what happened around that time, like either family wise or in society or like, you know, in your body, like what happened around that time that switched?
00:04:32:22 – 00:05:05:09 Unknown Yeah, I’m not sure. I mean I definitely it change of schools in having to yeah I mean I think change of schools having new new teachers and again that change in like you know kind of like starting in you know in your teens and that’s I think your brain chemistry changes where you’re studied like there’s been more concepts like, you know, danger in, you know, and things like that.
00:05:05:11 – 00:05:29:09 Unknown It’s when I you know, I started feeling like I was missing something. And again, I always thought it was my parents, but like, I don’t know, maybe was just not understanding, like, how I was, you know, in school, how I was supposed to act or things that I had to do. So I’m not sure what changed, to be honest.
00:05:29:11 – 00:05:57:18 Unknown I mean, it was definitely around the time that my, my, my parents went to visit me in Mexico around that time, but like only briefly, and then they left again. So I it was around that time. So maybe it triggered like, like I say, like after that, I you know, it’s kind of when I started feeling a little lonely and I you know, so I may have been because of that.
00:05:57:20 – 00:06:31:06 Unknown Yeah. So you mentioned that you were kind of raised by your grandmother and, you know, at what point did I think I’m curious about, like, your parents For how long? Like what kind of memories do you have of them when you were younger? I, I remember being forced to go like every weekend to my grandpa and my grandparents, my grandpa’s work, because that’s where we could use their phone in the offices.
00:06:31:06 – 00:06:49:10 Unknown We’re close, but he was security guard, so he was always allowed to to come in. So, like, we will go to this company that my grandfather worked for and use their phone number. And I remember he was like almost every other week that my grandma will bring us there. We’ll like talk to them for like maybe 10 minutes.
00:06:49:10 – 00:07:31:21 Unknown But we were forced to in my I, you know, in hindsight, you know, I knew what I know now, what I didn’t want to do it. And it was because to me was like talking to an extreme jerk, you know. And so that’s why I remember like, voices from them. I remember pictures. I didn’t I don’t have, like a clear image of my parents until until I was ten, 11 when they went to visit me, when I was able to put, you know, the image that I had with like how like, how their way and or in reality, you know, very often we hear about children being raised by grandparents or, you know, by other
00:07:31:21 – 00:07:59:02 Unknown family members. And, you know, that’s not typically the norm. Right? Because I know, like even with my own situation, my mother was really busy working multiple jobs to make ends meet, that I spent a lot of time with my grandparents and I spent a lot of time with extended family members. And I was always either in school or daycare or an after school program.
00:07:59:04 – 00:08:23:00 Unknown So I didn’t really have a close connection with my mother. And so whenever I hear situations of other people where they say, Yeah, they didn’t have a lot of interaction with their parents, I’m always kind of curious like, what is the story there? What was the reason why, you know, your parents couldn’t be more active in your life?
00:08:23:02 – 00:08:57:12 Unknown Yeah, well, the main reason was economics. My from my, my, but my family and both of my dad and my mom’s side come from extremely poor communities in Mexico. And like, my grandma, you know, cool. Then didn’t learn to read or write through her life. Now she’s 84 and she still doesn’t know how to read or write. My grandpa learned really late in life to read in my dad.
00:08:57:14 – 00:09:28:08 Unknown I think he went to school until the second grade only, so their prospects in Mexico were not great. And so then they had my sister and then that mean. So they didn’t really have a choice in their minds. So they came to the U.S. first to work temporarily, but then stay here for for many, many years. Why then?
00:09:28:10 – 00:09:59:00 Unknown You know, I’m not sure why they didn’t make more of an effort to go, but I do being here. I understand how, you know, time goes by fast. You want to work. So I understand why? Because it’s not an easy trip to make back, especially when you, you know, trying to save money and trying to survive here because it’s very expensive to live in the U.S. So I do understand that.
00:09:59:02 – 00:10:47:00 Unknown So I think those those are the main reasons, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And so that really makes me wonder like, okay, so the situation was kind of like, you know, they they entrusted your grandparents to take care of you while they were, you know, making money to support the family and things like that. And so I’m curious like when you said around ten years old by that point, like had you been seeing your parents more frequently or like what was the norm with the family situation around that time?
00:10:47:02 – 00:11:21:00 Unknown It was the same. I mean, after I saw them, I you know, around that time then they had my little sister. So they kind of left her in Mexico, too, and came back to the US to do that same thing. So I think it made things worse because, you know, I was old enough to realize what it was like to, you know, have a parent.
00:11:21:02 – 00:11:47:20 Unknown And it’s weird because I also don’t think I miss anything because my grandpa was like, you know, very active. And he, like, always took care of me and same for my my grandma. So it’s weird that we still have that need. Like, I don’t know, it’s very primal for you to have someone that is like, you’re paying. So definitely, I definitely thought that it felt different.
00:11:47:22 – 00:12:13:02 Unknown yeah. And also I’m thinking, you know, like I, you mentioned something earlier about, like your grandparents and how it kind of they felt like strangers right in the beginning where you were sort of forced to go see them every weekend. And, you know, eventually I really had an affinity for my grandparents, but I kind of felt the same way about them when I was younger.
00:12:13:04 – 00:12:40:00 Unknown I was always like, there’s like nothing interesting at their apartment. Like it smells like dead fish and like, you know, it’s so boring, you know, And they can’t speak to me like they don’t speak English. And I don’t really enjoy speaking Korean. Like, I really didn’t enjoy that. And so, you know, when you talk about that, I find that really fascinating.
00:12:40:01 – 00:13:08:22 Unknown But I think it’s true. Like we have that primal need to be close to our primary caregivers. So I’m thinking like for you, your grandparents or your parents probably were your parents. They took care of you until a certain age, right? And then they started, I guess, trusting your grandparents to take care of you. And what age was that?
00:13:09:00 – 00:13:43:15 Unknown So the clarified My parents left me, like in Mexico to my grandparents care when I was about two years old. And then that’s when they came to the U.S. So I so I will see them maybe every couple years, maybe even longer. Sometimes when they will come back to Mexico and visit. So I never had that transition period that an older kid will feel.
00:13:43:17 – 00:14:13:15 Unknown It was always like that. They as young as I remember, all I knew was that my grandparents were my maker takers. But even with Dad, whenever I did see my parents, I definitely felt different. You know, I always feel that need for their approval and also the attention that I never felt with my grandparents. You know, my grandparents like attention and care was always there.
00:14:13:17 – 00:14:47:08 Unknown So yeah. So that’s what what happened. Like they I never knew any other way, but my grandparents, you know, taking care of me, I can. Okay. I think that clarifies a couple of things for me. Thank you for clarifying that. I was curious then, so around the age in middle school, you, you were kind of struggling in school and you said that your grades got worse, your behavior, you know, had changed.
00:14:47:11 – 00:15:23:12 Unknown And I’m wondering, like, what the rest of secondary school was like for you and how you how the transition to high school was. Yeah. No, I it was definitely a struggle because I, I always felt like after ten I always, like, feel very emotional about everything. And it was hard for me to, like, regulate my emotions. And I also didn’t feel like anyone understood me and like my parents would at some point.
00:15:23:14 – 00:16:00:13 Unknown So like I said, I remember, you know, the three years were definitely a struggle. I, I remember being happy or having friends and, you know, having time to play with them. But the vocational side of it, I did. Orinda Well, and I don’t have fond memories. So even, you know, even though by then I had like passed the age, but my teachers were like, he’d me and Hansi by the end of the homework, like it was past and like I had made a that was, you know, in middle school with like there was no punishment, you know, I don’t know.
00:16:00:13 – 00:16:29:04 Unknown I didn’t do well. Yeah, I didn’t graduated with my with all my friends after three years. So I did that badly in my my parents helped me, you know, make up the classes, I mean, able to do to graduate. But it was that bad. And I think that’s what prompted my grandparents decision to as my parents, for me to come to the US with them.
00:16:29:06 – 00:16:52:09 Unknown They thought that I have a better chance of doing better in school in general and behavioral wise and, you know, and now talking about it like make sense, you know, maybe they saw the same thing. They were like, maybe your parents, you know, you will be different or something. Yeah. So at what age did you move to the United States?
00:16:52:11 – 00:17:14:18 Unknown I was 15, so I was when I came in to the US, I started in the ninth grade and I was in ninth grade for half a year. And then they moved to the ten year thing to a 10th grade because I was a little older and also had like a bunch of credits that I could transfer from one school in Mexico.
00:17:14:20 – 00:17:42:07 Unknown So yeah, I was around 15 when I started school. And what was that transition like for you? You know, going from one country to another, being with your grandparents and then now with your parents? What what things happened? You know what I mean? It was it school wise? It went really well. And I think it went better than anyone thought.
00:17:42:09 – 00:18:11:03 Unknown I was definitely a great student in high school, and I think it had to do with high school being less structured and like middle school was in Mexico. interesting. I feel like in Mexico, like the learning disability, I remember it being a little more rigid. We have a different teacher, you know, for different things, but they have like cleared things they wanted you to learn and there was no deviate in.
00:18:11:05 – 00:18:44:13 Unknown And when I say high school here, it was all more like, I mean, they’re like, finish this if you can. If you cannot, it’s fine. You know, sometimes the teacher didn’t feel like doing anything. So he will watch a movie like you will never do that in in school in Mexico. So I think that like kind of helped me just across there, like, you know, helped me feel a little freer because, you know, I didn’t have to wear a uniform.
00:18:44:15 – 00:19:23:08 Unknown My change, my classes changed every six months or not every every three months. We change them every two months. Yeah. So it was it was great. I was able to pick some of the classes that I wanted to pick. You know, that will never happen in our countries. So I definitely I did really well in all my classes, and even though I didn’t have many friends in the beginning, I was so busy, like trying to like work on the other aspects of like being in a new country that, you know, I didn’t it didn’t matter.
00:19:23:10 – 00:19:49:09 Unknown I started making friends in 11th and 12th grade and, you know, they had some friends that I still know from from back then. So you said that, you know, the the schooling in Mexico was a lot more rigid and more structured and maybe more controlled than what you witnessed when you came to the ninth or 10th grade in the U.S..
00:19:49:09 – 00:20:14:21 Unknown And I’m curious, what were the differences? I think you mentioned that, you know, like your teachers were a little more lax. If they didn’t want to do something, they would just put on a film like. But I’m curious, like, what were the conditions at schools in Mexico? Like, how was it different? How was it? So first I was in Mexico and I was thinking about this.
00:20:14:23 – 00:20:38:23 Unknown Everyone, I think something like 60 or 70% of of of kids finish up to middle school in Mexico. And after that, it drops to like 30 or 40%. So it’s a huge a huge change when you hit 15 off like they speak, patience to go to school. But school itself, up until that age, like you always wear uniforms.
00:20:38:23 – 00:21:09:13 Unknown There is not a single school, middle school that doesn’t have uniforms. You will use the same books because they are provided by you to you, by the by the government. You always have a difference. Limitations of you look. So you feel like they felt a little more rigid moving to the US. Like I say, I was able to pick classes.
00:21:09:13 – 00:21:42:08 Unknown I was able to walk around the hallways whenever I wanted. I was able to be more friendly with my teachers. I think to So he was he was so free that at some point I went and joined the ROTC in school because I wanted to have an extra class. And I think that subconsciously I miss being like structure in like when I joined the Junior ROTC, they provided that, you know, have to be at school a little earlier.
00:21:42:08 – 00:22:15:05 Unknown And they taught me how to march and they taught me how to like, polish my shoes and how to, like, shoot. So and that I did voluntarily. So I you know, I think it’s because I was craving that like little bit of structure that I was used to. That’s so interesting because did you know, like, is this kind of like a reflection, like a retrospect, active reflection, or did you know it at the time that you were craving structure?
00:22:15:07 – 00:22:48:22 Unknown I mean, he’s more thinking about it now at the moment. I remember it was clearly because he felt practical. And I also like how everyone that was doing that program acted in how they looked. So, you know, that’s why I, I remember joining in, you know, like, say, when to join is like joining the, like very light like version of like once like join the army.
00:22:48:22 – 00:23:21:07 Unknown You know, they put you in the uniform, you march they they teach you a lot of things. They think you they take you out to like bases and you get to interact with like rebels. We are soldiers. And so that’s the part I like and remember like him. That’s why he got, you know, you got to me. But but in retrospect, I mean, like I think that I like wearing like a tie in, like Polish shoes because I like how he look.
00:23:21:07 – 00:24:08:07 Unknown Like having a uniform is like, what it was like in Mexico. And I wanted that, you know. Yeah. So I think that’s that’s how I feel. I have a question here about expectations. Like, what were some of the expectations from your teachers and from your parents of you when you did move to the U.S. and, you know, you were in high school, I know you felt like a lot of freedom, but I’m curious what the expectations you felt came from your parents and your teachers of you at that time.
00:24:08:07 – 00:24:31:09 Unknown Yeah, it’s it’s really high because I think it’s connected to what I was mentioned in early that, you know, around 15 is when kids in Mexico like stop going to school in masses and like they were once okay with that because when I came to the US, my parents clearly expectation was for me to learn English and that’s it.
00:24:31:11 – 00:24:51:14 Unknown We went to try to sign me up to go to an adult only night school to learn to learn English, and the person working there looked at me and he was like, You should be in high school. You’re like, I can. I can let you come to the school, but you should be in high school. And I remember looking at my dad.
00:24:51:14 – 00:25:14:14 Unknown I’m like, Yeah, I want to go, you know? He said he sent me to school and I remember they always like going to the school and like talking to my teachers because I was a gifted a kid. So they they always get good grades. But as far as dictations, with my with my parents, he was just finishing high school.
00:25:14:16 – 00:25:45:13 Unknown They never up until like I was in the 12th grade. That’s when I decided I wanted to go to college and like that’s when they expectations that just had a little bit for that. But besides, like, I don’t think they ever expected me to, to go to college or finish college. My when my that’s always told me was that he’s wanted for me to be happy and to just do something good but didn’t never ask me to be a doctor or like never told me.
00:25:45:15 – 00:26:20:20 Unknown No one ever told me, if you don’t finish college, you know, you know you, they’ll be wasn’t. They’ve heard that expectation from Ben. So again I think help with like me feeling more free in more willing to like take risk and you know face this on my own like been having to go to college and like going through the whole process, paying for it, you know, figuring out all of that on my own because there wasn’t much pressure to do it.
00:26:20:22 – 00:26:53:15 Unknown I’m curious where that expectation for yourself came from, or was it just a desire? Like what was it about college that you felt like you wanted to go? I mean, the first time I remember thinking about it was if a teacher that feeling like were faced with still, she was a new teacher from El Salvador, that Jess had just become a teacher when I was in the 12th grade.
00:26:53:17 – 00:27:26:08 Unknown You don’t have that. I think it was at 12th grade. And I remember her coming in and like she was giving us our English class, and after the class she was like, You should go. Just go to college. And I’m like, What? I don’t know what you know, When I was doing college and she she then talked to the the person that ran the school newspaper, and the next semester I got an invite in my desk in my first day to join the journalism club in high school.
00:27:26:10 – 00:28:01:13 Unknown And, you know, you could never be invited to the anything of like from the clubs. So I joined, you know, I did the school newspaper, and that’s when I became like a real option to go to college to study journalism. Wow. Yeah, that’s really awesome. And so by that time, I think, you know, you have to have a certain level of English capability to be able to write and communicate.
00:28:01:15 – 00:28:30:07 Unknown So I’m wondering when you said your parents only expectation of you was to learn English, like how good was your English at that point and what were you like? Was there a goal you were trying to achieve in the night school to get better at speaking the language? Yeah, well, so I to go to night school to learn English.
00:28:30:09 – 00:29:17:04 Unknown I think it was starting from like maybe 10% knowledge of the language, but I guess vocabulary wise from going to school in Mexico. So he was definitely having to learn, learned the language. Even though was a good student in high school. I don’t think I particularly learn a lot how to like properly copyright. I, you know, I started learning way more in my last year when I did my this had this Korean teacher in this and I was working in the school newspaper, but it still wasn’t enough, like when I started going to college because I was still consider an English section then which student had to take a test.
00:29:17:06 – 00:29:54:06 Unknown And I read really bad, so I had to do another semester in college over remedial English. So I and that’s when I, I started like really, really practicing my reading and writing more and got way better at it than I ever did in four years in high school. Wow. Okay. So it kind of sounds like to me that it was when your teacher saw something in you that was like, this student is sharp and can achieve this.
00:29:54:06 – 00:30:26:13 Unknown And so she kind of gave you this expectation of like, you can achieve more, you can do more. And then you got invited into this club to, I guess, live up to that expectation. Or she gave you that departure point to increase your expectation of yourself. And that’s when your language capability kind of took off. Right. Okay. So I’m curious.
00:30:26:13 – 00:31:00:13 Unknown All right. That’s amazing. And I think it’s always so inspiring. Like I got goose bumps when, you know, you were telling me about this teacher who believed in you and gave you more to expect of yourself. And I think that’s what good teachers do. And I’m wondering about you going to college for journalism. I know in previous conversations I was surprised that you went to an HBCU.
00:31:00:15 – 00:31:30:00 Unknown And so I was wondering about like the options that you were considering for colleges around that time and why you ultimately chose the school that you attended. Yeah, well, it in high school, I my year, my teachers were black. The majority of my classmates were black. So I always I remember doing like assignments where I went to do public speaking.
00:31:30:02 – 00:31:58:18 Unknown I a in Black History month about w b d y in and mark my Malcolm X and kind of like we talked about both of the philosophies. So I got a lot of that in high school. So when it came time to go to college because my financial situation on in and how bad I think my my English was the the options were limited.
00:31:58:18 – 00:32:20:22 Unknown I mean I, I applied to mainly university in the local schools because at that point there was no and it wasn’t an option for me to leave home because I had just started leaving and getting to know my parents. I had only been with them as an adult, I will say, for three years. So I didn’t want to leave.
00:32:21:00 – 00:32:50:14 Unknown So in I got a scholarship to go to, to go to college, but it wasn’t that much so like it. So UDC became the perfect option because he was a school stay, local school. It was very affordable and I never felt out of place. The transition, I feel like they seamless. I even remember having black classmates in calling high school that also were in college.
00:32:50:16 – 00:33:26:06 Unknown Yeah. And you just feel natural that to be honest, you just feel natural. I see. And I know like, you know, we’ve had conversations in the past and we’d like I wouldn’t say that they’re debates because but we’ve had like pretty in-depth conversations about like social justice and like what is preventing people of color from raising and like, socially disadvantaged communities.
00:33:26:06 – 00:34:02:17 Unknown We we’ve talked a lot about that in the past, maybe not a lot, but enough where I feel like I understand where you stand on certain topics. And I was curious like, you know, kind of how you got into like immigration work, right? And how like what you learned in college and, and like those perspectives that you gained and the cultures that you were familiar with, like how that informed the work that you chose after college.
00:34:02:19 – 00:34:33:11 Unknown Yeah, for sure. I mean, like, like in working, going to school at HBCU’s, I get the chance to meet a lot of black leaders, but at the same time, I was able to form a core group of Latino friends that we went and created the first Latino Student Association in school, and it was like we were embraced there.
00:34:33:11 – 00:34:58:12 Unknown Like there was no never a question of like you can or cannot do this. We were embraced. We were like our advisors were like, eager to be with us, to help us, to support us when we had to march for whatever reason, like my teachers always like supported me, put in articles from the school newspaper that were related to immigration issues.
00:34:58:14 – 00:35:22:23 Unknown So from there, transitioning to work in immigration, I think very early on I understood that the issues we face, face the immigrants face in the US, a lot of you know, are also like civil rights issues that we were supposed to have dealt with, you know, a long time ago. But we still face still certain, you know, parts of the population face those.
00:35:23:00 – 00:36:01:09 Unknown So that’s that’s how I became natural in that’s why, you know, I’m so grateful to having had that background. Yeah. And you also I know you recently became a U.S. citizen. I think it’s been a year, a little over a year, Right? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it’s been amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it kind of. I think we were talking about like, because you have a lot of really informed views about laws and policies.
00:36:01:11 – 00:36:40:22 Unknown And I remember, I think at least in 2020, like that election year, we had talked a little bit about some of those laws and like the candidates that were either for them or against them. And I was wondering, like that journey of becoming a U.S. citizen has opened doors for you in terms of like being able to vote and to, you know, put your opinions into practice that you hadn’t been able to do before.
00:36:41:00 – 00:37:27:06 Unknown And I’m curious how that’s changed your level of engagement and how that sort of informs the work that you do as a paralegal. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I a definitely changed the way I interact with the police even more like the way I, I feel more open to like talking about a lot of like things that I never like put on Facebook or and I never, like kind of share, you know, people that have been that as long as I was in the immigration system in the U.S., which I think was in 15 years.
00:37:27:07 – 00:37:47:21 Unknown No, they they’re they’re USCIS in immigration. And the government is always watching kind of what we say, what we do. And like, when you fill out the questionnaire to become a citizen, they ask you all these questions regarding your views in the things I’ve done in the past. So like we always have that in the back of our minds.
00:37:47:21 – 00:38:15:18 Unknown Like even if you have been living here for 20 years, you always know that if you’re not a citizen, you can like kind of like step over the line too much. But now I definitely feel the difference. I feel a lot more now than I would. You know, I believe in the primaries, you know, I have more and more engage even more on who the candidates are and what they do.
00:38:15:19 – 00:38:38:18 Unknown And like I say, I feel more confident of my engaging like authority now than I was then. Like, I joke with Jocelyn, with my wife, I joke with my wife when whenever we come back to the US and, you know, because, you know, you always have to go through customs. And before I always used to be like, pull aside in that putting to a room.
00:38:38:18 – 00:39:00:09 Unknown We just, with my wife, pulled into a room with my wife where they will ask me questions before they let me back in the country. But now I just hand over my password and I even have one of those. I join one of those programs where you like submit to questions just like you through. I even have that.
00:39:00:10 – 00:39:20:19 Unknown So like I now just given my passport and like they look at it and give it back to me and say, you know, welcome. So even the way they interact you is different. Like I it’s just it’s just something that doesn’t seem right. And at the same time, you know, you know, who are you, what what can you do other Yeah.
00:39:20:21 – 00:39:58:08 Unknown Yeah. And you know, what’s really interesting is, you know, in the United States, there is such a power dynamic and it’s like rooted in like, you know, centuries of like racism. Right? And the thing is, in the United States, like it’s a big topic of discourse, whereas like in in South Korea, where I reside, like I am, you know, an expatriate, right?
00:39:58:08 – 00:40:27:20 Unknown I’m like an immigrant kind of I mean, I’m not going to live here for the rest of my life, but like, my alien registration card, right. Tells me that, you know, this is not my country. I can’t make, you know, certain decisions here. You know, it is a privilege for me to be here. And it doesn’t come with the baggage of maybe like being an immigrant to the United States.
00:40:27:22 – 00:40:56:02 Unknown But there is a level of like, I don’t belong here. You know, I have to be really careful of what I do and what activities I engage in here because I’m being given permission to not disrupt the flow of, you know, what is meant for the rest of the citizens here or the rest of, you know, Yeah, the citizens here.
00:40:56:04 – 00:41:33:05 Unknown And, you know, it just kind of feels like I’m a, you know, second class or third class citizen. And so I’m certain that, you know, with the baggage of that power struggle in the United States, it’s it’s probably even more burdensome to deal with. And particularly, there’s so much negative messaging around like immigration from Mexico and like there’s like from the right right wing.
00:41:33:05 – 00:42:07:13 Unknown Conservatives are always talking about that wall that they want to build. And all these, like negative messages they’re sending around and, like they’re going to take jobs from like the rest of the citizens or they’re bringing in like drugs and like all these things. Right. They’re they’re spreading these sometimes like outward lies and just very negative narratives about immigrants from Mexico.
00:42:07:13 – 00:43:01:23 Unknown And I’m wondering, like, how do you deal with that messaging personally, but also professionally in the work that you do for? Sure. So personally, because I believe that I’m like that I’m medicated and I understand that this is nothing but, you know, a political decision that party had made to use this topic as an election win, an election tool the same way they use the abortion debate like I personally don’t and just don’t care, like the way politicians talk about immigrants on my personally because I know we’re not done.
00:43:02:01 – 00:43:58:05 Unknown I know the bad messaging is is extremely dangerous for very vulnerable people. So I see that and I understand it, but I think I’m better than most people at blocking it because I understand what’s behind it. Now, professionally, you do have to care because that’s how people perceive you. That’s how you have to act differently. So professionally, always, it’s always going to affect your life On the professional side, you know, I definitely being in situations where I’m the I, you know, the only Latino working in it feels yeah, you feel it feels different.
00:43:58:05 – 00:44:43:17 Unknown And I also feel like I’m more free to share, you know, how I am. And, you know, on the other side when I work, especially in the immigration brand, in nonprofits, where the majority of people work in there like Latinos and, you know, it feels different. It feels more, I would say, at home, it’s easier for me to not have to like all the time being having to I correct people or show people what the right way of like, you know, connecting to my community is what I when I work in environments where there are more Latinos, I don’t feel that need and I feel more as relaxed.
00:44:43:17 – 00:45:16:07 Unknown And that is I think, yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know like I want to read something that you wrote and I wanted to see if you could elaborate on this. You said, particularly in the United States, we have a huge problem with the influence radical groups are having in school curriculums, the whitewashing of our Latino culture and family separations because of non-serious crimes which can carry repercussions in their immigration status.
00:45:16:09 – 00:45:53:03 Unknown And I was wondering, like, how much of what you do as a paralegal and like working in institutions where you’re working with immigration policy and things like that, how much of this impacts school policy and like the decisions that authorities need to make around, you know, the safety and security of all young people in schools? Yeah, for sure.
00:45:53:07 – 00:46:31:22 Unknown So I, I personally in my in my work mainly deal with with immigration issues that, you know, kids and young adults face. Now it is related because a lot of the times they think our kids getting in trouble because of school related incidents because the tendency of schools to be less tolerant towards kids that you know of of color, whether it’s because they don’t understand the language, they don’t, you know, it’s definitely a cultural difference, of course.
00:46:31:22 – 00:47:08:16 Unknown I mean, in our country to classical for many reasons. And that feeling to that in addition to and like I say, I let them know having the language so Keith that they might especially reason that rival kids have a harder time and have more of a chance to be involved in in in issues that will cause them to have to be in touch with the police or with the authorities, which in in which also carries the harsh consequences on their own, their immigration cases.
00:47:08:18 – 00:47:41:08 Unknown So, you know, that’s how I got to under to like see this from firsthand and then working in DC being able to talk to people that do this for a living. You start to I think about five years ago I started to understand what like social justice really mean. And like social and then police reform and criminal justice reform and how it affects our, you know, brown kids and black kids.
00:47:41:10 – 00:48:08:09 Unknown So I tend to be more proactive when I hear about the sort of when I when I see family members or like members, family members of my clients or my own family members having issues in school, I think to be more proactive in knowing what their rights are, knowing what their patients are. So it made me more of aware, you know?
00:48:08:11 – 00:48:49:20 Unknown Yeah. What do you think that we should be doing in schools or what? I don’t know. Opportunities that could be better. Or like what kind of structures or systems do you think in schools that can be changed to help immigrants have more opportunities or have more support or security in in life in the United States? Yeah, I mean, I think it all starts with funding.
00:48:49:22 – 00:49:17:05 Unknown You know, I love these in the US is really funding because we know the problem exists, but we don’t really have the political will to fix it. One example, one great example of that is education. You know, I love this show called Abbott Elementary and it talks about a group of teachers in elementary school and all the things they face and how short of they are and how much they need things.
00:49:17:07 – 00:49:35:04 Unknown And we laugh at it and like you’re doing great on TV, but everyone that you talk to, no matter who they are, if you ask if that’s true reflection of our schools and the US will tell you, yes. So we know X is we make fun of it. We put it in primetime TV, but we still don’t fix it.
00:49:35:06 – 00:50:14:01 Unknown So I think funding like the way we fund schools has to change and then with funding will come more, you know, qualified teachers, more activities, more more space to allow schools to cater to individual, not individual, but to to the needs of like groups of kids that at this point, I guess right now are just thrown into the same classroom with the same expectations with they come from different places, whether it’s linguistically or or their cultural background.
00:50:14:03 – 00:50:39:02 Unknown So all of that comes with funding. And so I think that to me, that’s one of the first most important things to address. The second one is just to hire more brown and black student. I mean, teachers and I know that sounds easy to say than Don, but I think it also goes back to funding. I think those teachers need to pay get be more.
00:50:39:03 – 00:51:09:00 Unknown You know why? Because they bring an extra layer of knowledge that can help our kids be successful, whether it’s, again, linguistically or culturally, they bring something else. They should be paid more. So, yeah, there are teachers. And yes, I think that in our countries we tend to approach education the same way we approach a lot of things, which is in a community based setting.
00:51:09:02 – 00:51:39:11 Unknown I you know, I remember growing up like like I mentioned before, my grandmother, you know, how to read or write. So she actually helped me do my work from school. So she will go in as a neighbor to like, help me in the neighborhood, bring me and help me. And then and help me with my homework. So, you know, I think that we have to try that approach in schools in the US, you know, be more community based.
00:51:39:12 – 00:52:01:22 Unknown So, yeah, and that part is a tricky one because a lot of the schools and a lot of the parents of schools that are minority will be black and brown. Kids, you know, have to work in order to make a living. So that comes around again with funding because then maybe you can like have different hours for parents to come, not just during the day, but maybe some later in the afternoon, even if we have to be over time.
00:52:01:22 – 00:52:31:11 Unknown Like if you have the freedom, because money’s not an option, the sky’s the limit. Yeah, that’s a really good point. And, you know, like, I think what I’m thinking about on this podcast, I’m realizing that our existing education systems are centralized, meaning that, you know, there is a governing body that says this is what our schools are going to look like, this is what the curriculum is going to look like.
00:52:31:13 – 00:53:09:06 Unknown These are the qualifications that the teachers need to have. These are the standards and benchmarks that students need to meet in order to be successful. But I’m realizing that through the course of this podcast and this research, that society is kind of heading in a direction where there’s going to be more opportunities for dissent, paralyzed education like pockets to form, and maybe in the future that, you know, I’m not sure if we’re going to have a centralized system forever.
00:53:09:07 – 00:53:53:11 Unknown And, you know, I can’t really predict the future, but just based on things that I’m seeing and the trends that are shifting around what we’re valuing in education, you know, we don’t really need a lot of school to be there. What we do really want is to give our students enough opportunities to find their gifts and their talents and what they’re interested in, and also give them many opportunities to figure out how their ideas and how their talents can be economically viable in the real world once they graduate.
00:53:53:13 – 00:54:31:03 Unknown And I think what I’m finding is that, you know, when you are in high school, you are going to night school for language support, right? Meaning you are not getting those needs met during school hours. And it’s those things kind of make me really angry. It’s like, why are we going to give you all of these other classes that aren’t as pressing as your need to maybe learn the language right, Because that will help you with these other subjects as well.
00:54:31:05 – 00:55:11:17 Unknown And, you know, when I look at all of the people right, not just people, not just like immigrants or whatever situation, but even for me, like I didn’t know that I had undiagnosed neurodivergent when I was younger or that I that I was just so anxious. And that’s why none of the subjects came easy to me. And it’s like we lose so many of our children, our young people, because we’re not meeting their very primary specific needs.
00:55:11:20 – 00:55:46:17 Unknown We have all these like other things we want them to do. And so like, I feel like the future of education is really in my hope to give our young people more opportunities to work on what they really need to work on and not have all of these, like centralized expectations and standards of what they have to do because we’re all coming from different avenues.
00:55:46:19 – 00:56:39:11 Unknown And so that was kind of a long rant. But I wanted to ask you like to re ask you this question of if we’re looking at a decentralized model of education, would that change your answer right, of needing funding and good access to like good teachers and community based support? I’m sure some of that will spillover. But I wonder if we’re looking at this new model of decentralized education where everybody is self-directed and working on things that they need to work on.
00:56:39:12 – 00:57:24:23 Unknown What are some things we can do in society to help them find their career? They’re like their career path, their life trajectory while they’re still in our care. Does that question make sense? Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, I think the first thing is that we have to reimagine how we test our kids. So rethink why we test our kids, you know, the same way, you know, I mean, part of decentralizing schools is, you know, reformulating.
00:57:24:23 – 00:57:47:18 Unknown How are we going to what standards are we going to send in the who is going to test those standards? And like, do they have to be the same for all our kids? And the other part, when it comes to funding, again, you got to rethink the you know, the the way we fund schools, the way how, you know, schools in the New Rich, your neighbors get more more money.
00:57:47:20 – 00:58:11:09 Unknown You know, a lot of those things matter. So if you know if you give priorities, you know, you think about how much of a difference that will make. You know, if you give parents in these like parents in like directors of these safe schools in like poor neighborhoods, the same funding that you give the other kids, like, how much difference will that make?
00:58:11:14 – 00:58:45:02 Unknown And on top of that, give them the freedom of being able to to do what they do best, you know, already. But like with money, which is, you know, the are in the in the community, they know what the kids need. They in they’re able to provide it so that that will make a huge difference. But yeah I’m against the standardized tests you know I that need for us to measure each other against each other especially in the US, it’s like this is, you know, I never seen anything like that.
00:58:45:04 – 00:59:19:03 Unknown Yeah. And this. Yeah, exactly. I think it exists in lots of places around the world. And I think I see that a lot in South Korea. Like, I mean, young people are just they’re on a living themselves because they cannot deal with the pressure to compete in such cutthroat society. So yeah, it’s it’s really coming at the cost of not only their survival, but, you know, their mental health as well.
00:59:19:05 – 00:59:50:02 Unknown So I agree with you. And, you know, I kind of wanted to ask you this question as sort of like our last set of questions. But you wrote that, you know, a a belief that you have that can impact the next generation is the power of radical candor, the importance of multiculturalism and power of citizen engagement in local politics.
00:59:50:04 – 01:00:29:22 Unknown And I was wondering, could you explain, like, what radical candor means to you and how we can engage our young people in local politics from a young age? Yes. Well, to me, radical candor means that whenever someone’s going to give me a feedback, it’s direct and specific and is done with compassion, but not like of like not in a way.
01:00:29:22 – 01:00:54:18 Unknown We’re like you. You are afraid of getting the feedback. So like, I’m against the, like the sandwich that the the create that they made where like, you have to be good something say something positive then give the bad news and put another positive in the in on the bottom. Just because by the time you get to try to give them the positive, they don’t hear it.
01:00:54:18 – 01:01:24:18 Unknown All the hears is the is the bad news I’m all for, believe me, when it comes to the management style of if you want to say something positive, just say it like you don’t have to wait until you have to give them some bad news in order to say it. And on the same token, I think people are benefited more if you explain to them what they did wrong without having that need of like, let me soften the blow.
01:01:24:20 – 01:01:53:10 Unknown I think you can be compassionate, but you can also, you know, be very truthful on how you say things and you get feedback. So to me, that’s what radical candor means. Now for the second question, how we can engage our young people in local politics. I think they we have to show them, Mike, how much of a difference it makes when they’re engaged?
01:01:53:12 – 01:02:22:11 Unknown I think that very often we tend to make decisions for them without them having the responsibility of the ability to give feedback to us as like people making those decisions. So, you know, what? If, for example, like we allow, you know, kids in high school to board for their own like school board members instead of just the adults or the school superintendent?
01:02:22:13 – 01:02:45:15 Unknown Or what if we give more power to like escort school student associations to like launch complaints or to take some of the budget for the school? You know what? If we did that, that that would definitely make them engage and make them care about how politics are being run, how they get the money for the school. So I think we can do that.
01:02:45:15 – 01:03:08:03 Unknown We’d like every aspect of what’s going on, what goes on around your neighbor. But, you know, the reason we don’t do it is because that’s how we’re used to doing politics. And, you know, we know better as adults than, you know, kids do in our minds. I mean, of course, it should be like a kind of date of when you can, like participate in these like maybe 11, maybe 12.
01:03:08:03 – 01:03:21:07 Unknown But you should definitely start young. Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.