Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Antoinette—the current principal of the elementary school I attended in the late 80s and early 90s. We talk a little about how her early memories of standing up for other people and correcting injustices in school and society might have led her to a career in education, in both teaching and administrative roles. This episode is particularly special because I have always appreciated the amazing design of the project-based curriculum and community of my alma mater, and Antoinette allowed me to ask her about what happens behind the scenes.
Here is our slightly edited conversation.
Computer-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:13 – 00:00:29:04 Unknown Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed as a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following. I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and even small academies.
00:00:29:06 – 00:00:58:03 Unknown I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, had it received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that have failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale, to speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems, to rethink what schools can be, what it should be.
00:00:58:03 – 00:01:29:04 Unknown When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Antoinette, the current principal of the elementary school I attended in the late eighties and early nineties. We talk a little bit about how her early memories of standing up for other people and correcting injustices in both school and society might have led her to a career in education, in both teaching and administrative roles.
00:01:29:06 – 00:02:06:07 Unknown This episode is particularly special because I have always appreciated the amazing design of the project based curriculum and community of my alma mater, and Antoinette allowed me to ask her about what happens behind the scenes to make that amazingness happen. Here is our slightly edited conversation. I was a like, stubborn child. I was into everything and into everyone’s business, really.
00:02:06:09 – 00:02:38:17 Unknown Family always thought that I was going to go in the direction of maybe a lawyer because I was always fighting other people’s battles and just nosey any and everything. And but my childhood was wonderful. I went to a fabulous K-8 Catholic school. My mom was an educator and my dad was a long enforcement agent and my grandparents were all hands on and loving.
00:02:38:17 – 00:03:18:02 Unknown And I have one sister and we just had a really amazing childhood with lots of love and lots of camping and just lots of opportunities to discover ourselves. We were always swimming and playing sports and just really happy and engaged and loved. So I had a wonderful childhood. that’s so lovely. I’m really curious about this part where you said that you were always fighting with people and you were solving other people’s problems, or at least that’s how I interpreted it.
00:03:18:04 – 00:03:49:10 Unknown And I’m curious, where do you think that started? Or can you remember like a significant memory of that happening and what what led to that? You know, off the top of my head, I can’t think of like a specific moment when I remember that being part of my existence. But I do always remember feeling like I had to speak up for things that I felt weren’t just.
00:03:49:12 – 00:04:15:14 Unknown And I always needed an explanation for like how a decision was made or, you know, my dad always said life isn’t fair, but I always needed an explanation to try to come to some kind of balance of fairness in my mind. And so I can see that still in me right as an adult. But as a kid, that was it.
00:04:15:15 – 00:04:37:19 Unknown You know, I do remember a very funny story of I guess I was didn’t have the best math mind then. And I remember my dad giving me a $5 bill and giving my sister five ones. And I was arguing to the deaf because I was like, she got more than me. Right? And so I was really young when that happened.
00:04:37:21 – 00:05:00:06 Unknown And he tried and tried to explain it to me. And I didn’t understand. And so literally he just switched. He said, Let’s give you this. They’re the five ones. And I gave her the $5 bill and and then by that time I was like, okay, now it’s fair. Now, now I understand it. Right? And we were off to go do whatever we were playing or doing.
00:05:00:07 – 00:05:27:10 Unknown So in that regard, like, I just always had to have a very detailed explanation as to why things were and if it didn’t seem just then, I always had to get an explanation and I always had to fight for that explanation. For others. And so, you know, throughout my childhood I was always being told to just kind of mind my own business.
00:05:27:10 – 00:05:56:12 Unknown That doesn’t concern you, Antoinette, but I just felt like it does concern me because if they’re not going to speak up on their own behalf, I’m going to do it for them. That’s amazing. I think when I was younger, I sort of was the opposite. I mean, looking back, I had very low self-esteem, but also culturally, I think I was taught to never talk back, you know, to never really ask questions or question what the authorities have decided.
00:05:56:13 – 00:06:23:01 Unknown And so it’s kind of very different from my upbringing and so I’m very curious, like, how was that allowed in the household? And, you know, you mentioned your dad being in law enforcement. And I’m wondering, like if somehow you gleaned, you know, from from that experience or that relationship that it’s important to, you know, stand up for what you believe in.
00:06:23:07 – 00:06:53:22 Unknown And I’m just wondering, like, how do you raise children? Right. Like, I think that’s in the back of my mind is how do we raise our children to have that strong sense of justice? I know we can get into that a little bit deeper later, but I’m just wondering if, you know or knew at that age, like or even looking back, how that was sort of ingrained in you or shaped in you either by your parents?
00:06:54:00 – 00:07:26:07 Unknown Yeah, I think I think that is just who I am and who I was. And my parents did a lot to nurture that. They also did a lot to try to keep it at bay and, you know, there were times when it just wasn’t appropriate. Right. And so they tried to teach me a little bit of balance of you can’t always come into a situation with a fight and, you know, presuming negative intentions.
00:07:26:08 – 00:07:53:16 Unknown Right. And so I did have to learn that balance as well. But I think it’s just how I’m wired, honestly. And having two parents in like, you know, service industry, you know, type roles. Absolutely. I think that had something to do with it, you know, serving others and trying to take and taking care of others. But I definitely feel like it’s just how I was wired from the beginning.
00:07:53:16 – 00:08:35:05 Unknown Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So I guess, like, I’m wondering how that played out at school. And I think you said you were always fighting fights for others. And I’m wondering, like, how did that translate outside of the home at school? Yes, I was. That’s really what I was thinking about. I was always in class questioning and needing an explanation, but also wanting my classmates to feel valued, honored and heard.
00:08:35:07 – 00:09:03:18 Unknown And if I felt like there was something unjust happening just in the overall scope of things, I was always the one to speak up. And so that stays with me today. But yes, definitely. Yeah, that’s really awesome. You know, I remember even in high school, I wasn’t that way. I couldn’t be that way for other people because I couldn’t even do that for myself.
00:09:03:20 – 00:09:23:17 Unknown I remember I had a friend similar to how you’re telling me about what kind of student you were who would do that for me? He would be like, What’s she saying to you right now is actually mean. And he would just like, grab my hand and you’d be like, You don’t need to take this. We’re leaving. You know?
00:09:23:17 – 00:09:51:02 Unknown And he like, he had that, like, understanding of what was fair, what wasn’t. And I was just like, I deserve everything that’s coming to me. I’m I’m just going to take it, you know? And so I’m always curious, like, how do we, you know, nurture that? And so, you know, I know you’re a school principal and I’m wondering how you got there.
00:09:51:04 – 00:10:12:16 Unknown I know you mentioned a little bit about how your family thought you might become a lawyer. And I’m kind of curious about the different, I guess, parts that you explored before ultimately becoming a principal. Yes. Well, to your point that you just made about not being able to speak up for yourself. Right. A lot of times it’s easier to speak up for others.
00:10:12:18 – 00:10:48:21 Unknown You know, just because there’s there’s no real risk of humiliation or of, you know, of being wrong or of, you know, putting yourself out there, like showing your own vulnerability. You’re just doing it on behalf of someone else, not necessarily doing it, you know, for yourself. And so I know I find it easier or have found it easier to speak up for others faster than I’m able to do it for myself.
00:10:48:23 – 00:11:18:14 Unknown But my journey. So I didn’t always want to be in education. I actually my mom steered me away from me. She’s like, No, you know, I’ll do that because she had done it all of her life and she really didn’t want me to follow that path. Teaching is extremely hard. And, you know, we’ve all heard the saying what teachers teach for the outcome, not the income.
00:11:18:14 – 00:11:48:08 Unknown Right. And it’s so insulting that people say that. But in reality, that is kind of true, right? Because you’re not going to get rich off of teaching. And so as a mother, she was like, yes, I love it and I love the kids, but I want you to do something else. Do something else. Don’t do that. And so I went to UC Irvine, and when I graduated, I was about to graduate from UC Irvine.
00:11:48:10 – 00:12:14:15 Unknown I actually had the opportunity to do an internship, which was a part or Field’s fieldwork, which was a part of my requirements for graduation. And so I went to the police station to do my fieldwork, and they actually weren’t taking fieldwork students that semester. And I was so close to graduating that I just had to go somewhere and get it done.
00:12:14:21 – 00:12:36:01 Unknown And so I went to an elementary school in Irvine, and I absolutely just fell in love with it. And it was at that moment where I was like, I think my mother’s just had to be a little disappointed. I’m going to actually do this thing. And so I loved every minute of my time at the school in Irvine.
00:12:36:03 – 00:13:01:09 Unknown And then when I graduated, I about a year after graduation, I became a to an elementary school. And as a part of that, I then was a T.A. in a kindergarten classroom. And I loved that, too. And so then the principal there had asked me if I was interested since I had my MBA. I did not have my teaching credential it at that time.
00:13:01:09 – 00:13:34:12 Unknown But she did ask me if I wanted to interview to be a kindergarten teacher. And so I did. And so I was a kindergarten through third grade teacher at this elementary school for ten years. And then from there I left there and I became a Title one and bilingual coordinator at another elementary school in the district. And then after that, I did that for two years, and I feel like that was the hardest job I’d ever done in my life.
00:13:34:12 – 00:13:56:22 Unknown And I was like, I think I want to go back to the classroom. And so I did. I went back to the classroom at your alma mater, and then from there I was there for two years in the classroom, and when the principal was leaving, he tapped me on the shoulder and he said, I think that you should apply for the principal’s know how.
00:13:57:01 – 00:14:38:08 Unknown And so I did. And here we are 12 years later. wow. 12 years. Yes. I’ve been the principal there for 12 years. then I know who the former principal was. I actually interviewed him. did you? yes. that’s incredible. Yes. What a journey. Yes. I really want to go back to this part of being a kindergarten teacher and then becoming kind of more of the part of the administer native team.
00:14:38:10 – 00:15:15:00 Unknown What do you think was the reason you left teaching to pursue a more administrative role? So the way that education is structured in order to go into administration, you have to have taught. So it is that it is a stepping stone to administration. They don’t really parallel that closely, but it is just a prerequisite. And so I had taught for ten years and I absolutely loved it, but I had also kind of maxed out and what I felt like I could do in the classroom and the impact that I could have.
00:15:15:02 – 00:15:51:20 Unknown And so in order to eventually become a principal, I had to step out and do some quasi administrative duties. And so that’s when I just decided, well, I should just go for it. My I, I got my administrative credential in about 2005, but I didn’t activated or or become principal until 2012. So I just had it in my back pocket just in case whenever I needed it or wanted to go that route, I could.
00:15:51:22 – 00:16:26:03 Unknown And, you know, honestly, there there I felt in my heart that I would be like called to the right school to do education the way I, you know, know that it works best. And so the school where I am now was that exact fit. My children had gone there. They’re now 23 and 24, but at that time they had already gone through that school and they just loved it and were what they were flourishing.
00:16:26:08 – 00:16:51:10 Unknown So even as a parent, I was on the Governing Council and I was really active and then having an opportunity to go there and teach just kind of solidified it like, Yes, yes, this is the place for me. Yeah. And it’s such a special place. It’s such a special school. And, you know, I’m I’m so lucky to have gone to that school.
00:16:51:14 – 00:17:28:17 Unknown You know, my mother was very kind of hands off when it came to being an educator for me. And so she kind of relied on, you know, schools to prepare me for society. And I knew, like she had heard that that school was a really good school. And so she did everything she could to get me in. And, you know, because it was lottery based, there was so little that she could actually do except kind of pray and hope for the best.
00:17:28:17 – 00:18:29:14 Unknown Yes, absolutely. Yes. We certainly say to this day it’s like hitting the lottery. That’s exactly what it was. Yes. And, you know, like being there and being immersed in that culture and looking at the curriculum and and just seeing how things are organized, it really is brilliant. You know, I was a teacher for about 15 years. And when I look back at my childhood experience of having gone to that school, I’m really amazed by how advanced the curriculum is and also just the way that the culture is set up and to this day, I my memories of elementary school are so much stronger than some of my experiences in later years of my education journey.
00:18:29:16 – 00:19:00:08 Unknown And I have always just been like, there is serious magic at at the school. And I did a lot of research and reading about things related to the school. But I would love to know like how you continue to keep that culture alive and what you think are the reasons why it’s so successful and that it continues to give such an amazing experience for all the children who go through it?
00:19:00:10 – 00:19:35:19 Unknown Absolutely. I think that’s just it. We sent her kids first and foremost. Nothing gets in the way of that. The entire school, the philosophy, the the campus, the human resources, the people. Right. All of that is aligned for centering children. And so as long as we keep that our center, then we won’t stray. But as soon as we let other agendas get in the way, then the kids won’t be first and foremost.
00:19:35:21 – 00:20:08:23 Unknown So we’ve kept it because we continue to send our kids every single day, you know, was founded by parents and teachers that wanted a different experience for their children. And so because of that, it continues to rely on that foundation. We still have parity in our Governing council. So we have 12 staff members, but we have 12 parents.
00:20:08:23 – 00:20:42:14 Unknown And so everybody comes together is a body of 24 decision makers. And my vote is no stronger or holds no more weight than any of the parent members on the council or any teachers or any classified staff. So everybody has the same voice and the same weighted vote. And we come to consensus by having sometimes very long conversations around the topic.
00:20:42:16 – 00:21:13:23 Unknown But that’s okay because we have to get to the point where the decision that we’ve made is truly centered around what’s best for kids. And so if we do that, we won’t go wrong and the school will just continue to flourish. You know, something that I consistently hear in like great education practices type, you know, things is about classroom size.
00:21:14:00 – 00:21:50:22 Unknown And I’m always like, you know, there were 64 students in my class and we had two teachers. And still I felt like I got attention. I still felt like, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know how to articulate it because there are when I was younger, I really did feel a bit alone and isolated. But when I look back, I’m amazed by how large the class was, but that we still felt like it was a community and that that people really cared.
00:21:51:00 – 00:22:23:06 Unknown And I’m just wondering how you respond to that or what you think about that. Yes. So we get that all the time, especially in our older clusters, that our class sizes 58 with two teachers in our younger class clusters, our class size is 48 with two teachers, and so a little smaller than what you experience. But still in the scheme of classroom size is rather large.
00:22:23:08 – 00:23:09:03 Unknown And so in the younger grades we do, I think people and families are used to it. But when we get into the upper grades, they definitely say that’s too many children in the classroom. But the classroom is set up for self-exploration, right? And for the teacher to be a facilitator of the learning that is happening. And so with that, there’s this fluidity that allows children to dig deeper in their own research that they are interested in or to work collaboratively with other students.
00:23:09:03 – 00:23:31:19 Unknown Right? The teacher is not the sole holder of all of the knowledge that is supposed to be imparted to the students. They are just equally as responsible to share and impart wisdom and knowledge to one another and to use the teacher as a conduit, not necessarily as the person who holds all the information and just gives it to them.
00:23:31:19 – 00:23:57:13 Unknown So it’s not a sit and get it’s a get up, get involved, find the answer, dig in. Understand that even in kindergarten, your education has to be most important to you, right? We have to teach children that. That you’re here. Yes. We’re an education. And you’re here because the state of California says you have to be, but you’re also here for your own best interests.
00:23:57:13 – 00:24:23:13 Unknown And how do you, you know, manifest that for yourself? How do you dig in and be a part of your learning, not just a, you know, a receptacle for it? Right. Right, exactly. And I should have maybe gone down this route first, but I wanted to ask you, you mentioned the state of California and also you talked about, you know, centering students.
00:24:23:15 – 00:25:03:10 Unknown And as long as you start with that, you know, you won’t stray. And I’m wondering like it is a charter school and I’m I don’t I’m not very knowledgeable about, you know, how like the federal mandates of this is what children need to know at this age get transferred to charter schools. And I know that there’s a lot of independence from charter schools to be able to make curricular decisions and regarding instruction and things like that.
00:25:03:10 – 00:25:34:02 Unknown But I’m curious how where that sort of, you know, that pipeline, what happens during that pipeline of this is what you need to all children need to know. And here is the freedom that we give our teachers and parents to make the decisions for the children and what happens in between. Yes. So the state of California has what’s called the Common Core Standards.
00:25:34:04 – 00:26:03:00 Unknown Right. And so they are the teaching standards that every student is supposed to and that every teacher is supposed to teach to, that every student is supposed to learn in their K-12 education, possibly even pre-K, now that we have pre-kindergarten. So from pre-K to 12th grade as a charter school, for us, it’s a little bit different than independent charter schools because we are what’s called a dependent charter school.
00:26:03:02 – 00:26:31:17 Unknown So we are governed by the school district and we do have curricular autonomy. But that autonomy comes because every five years we write our charter, so we write a document that gives us those curricular freedoms, but they’re not freedoms from the state standards. They’re just freedoms to say, this is how we are going to teach the different standards.
00:26:31:19 – 00:27:05:17 Unknown And so we lay out a blueprint every five years that says how we are going to educate children that may look like we’re going to do readers workshop, we’re going to do writers workshop, right? We’re not going to do the the district mandated textbook for reading. We’re not going to do the district mandated math for curriculum for math or a prescribed writing program, because we’ve selected to do readers workshop writers, workshop, CGI, math.
00:27:05:18 – 00:27:31:18 Unknown And so in that it is in our charter. And if that charter is approved by the Board of Education, then we have the autonomy to teach the way that we have told them we would over the next five years. And so that’s how that’s how our charter works for us. But then we’re also a magnet school. So magnet is where we get our diversity.
00:27:31:18 – 00:28:07:05 Unknown The magnet is where we get transportation for students. And so we’re like the best of both worlds because we have the the support and the support of the magnet office. But then we also have the freedoms that the charter gives us to be an autonomous entity. And what kind of like do you have to supply any kind of proof that, you know, you are doing as you say you are?
00:28:07:07 – 00:28:36:19 Unknown And how does that in what kind of form do you show the progress that the students are making towards achieving the charter that you’ve written that they’ve approved? Yes. So for the charter office, they come to our school once a year to check in and they look at our data, they look at our attendance metrics, math scores, language arts scores.
00:28:36:21 – 00:29:12:18 Unknown They look at the minutes from all of our governing Council meetings. They dig into our website, right? They look to see all of the things that we’re doing and they come and they visit our class, our campus, and they walk our classrooms and talk to teachers and talk to students and sometimes even talk to parents. So they do a yearly check to make sure that what we say we’re doing aligns to what they see when they come to visit, and that our data is improving yearly or at least staying on par.
00:29:12:20 – 00:29:39:14 Unknown So we do have those checks and balances. And then when we the year before the fifth year, then it’s a little bit more involved and then the fifth year we’re rewriting the charter. And so we’re meeting with the charter office more frequently in that fifth year to make sure that we are writing a document that will be able to be sustained for the upcoming five years.
00:29:39:16 – 00:30:19:04 Unknown okay. So thank you for that information because, you know, as I’m doing this podcast, I did a season finale of like kind of the takeaways from like everything that I’ve been learning. And one of the insights that I took away is that, you know, in general the school system sort of measures the success of students based on standardized exams, but that that those but that the test scores don’t actually lead to or translate to real world success.
00:30:19:06 – 00:30:50:18 Unknown And from my memory, I don’t remember doing a lot of standardized testing at school and I don’t remember. Yeah, maybe a little bit. But but they didn’t really feel high stakes and I didn’t feel like I was being tested. I don’t think there were a lot of tests. And so I’m curious like, how do you, you know, manage like metrics, I guess.
00:30:50:19 – 00:31:21:04 Unknown Yeah, Yes. So it’s tricky. It’s extremely tricky at a school like ours because it’s constructivist, it’s hands on is project based. There’s not a lot of testing going on. And that’s intention, that’s by design. And so then when there are certain entities that want to know how you’re doing in certain areas, right, like you said, they’re checking our metrics.
00:31:21:06 – 00:31:48:18 Unknown We have to have that too, because that is the way that we are measured. And so we do more testing now than you probably did, you know, years ago. But we try really hard to keep a balance and to keep those keep our kids centered. And, you know, testing all the time is not the way that you center children.
00:31:48:20 – 00:32:21:20 Unknown And so, you know, there’s some mandates by the district, there’s some mandates by, you know, other entities that need to see a progress in a certain way. But then we’re also able to make sure that for in-house, we have our project based learning right. And our anecdotal notes and all of the personal conversations that we have about children for children success.
00:32:21:22 – 00:33:10:05 Unknown So we have lots of meetings with parents, right? Student led conferences where they are highlighting for their families what they’ve learned and what their goals are for the coming semester. And so that’s all a part of what we’re measuring, but that’s not always what we’re being asked for when it’s time to renew our charter. I see. You know, that reminds me one of my earliest and and maybe this is something that I talk about in therapy, but, you know, when I was younger, in second grade, I remember a very important conference with my mother and my two second grade teachers.
00:33:10:06 – 00:33:39:00 Unknown And, you know, being told that I didn’t meet, that I was kind of underperforming against all of my peers. And, you know, that really sort of kind of started taking in me like a a feeling of inferiority and insecurity and like, you know, that I was just not meeting expectations. And that stayed with me for a very, very long time.
00:33:39:06 – 00:34:10:00 Unknown And I guess, you know, that kind of led to post-traumatic growth in many ways. So I guess I’m thankful for that experience. But, you know, it was a very I think that was probably my only scar, though, from school. And I remember in later years I was kind of seen for more like certain specific skills that I did have.
00:34:10:01 – 00:34:40:01 Unknown And I am curious like how you continue to have that balance of, you know, showing the students and and the parents of those students like, hey, these things that your children need to work on, but these are the ways that we are highlighting their skills. And you know what they’re bringing to the table. And I’m curious how you balance that.
00:34:40:03 – 00:35:07:23 Unknown Yeah. So we always have to start with a child’s strengths because everyone has them. Everyone has lots of them. And as a teacher, it’s our job to find out what that strength is. And sometimes they come in and you can see it all over them, you know, exactly what it is. And sometimes you have to have patience and dig a little deeper and find out where their strengths lie.
00:35:07:23 – 00:35:32:17 Unknown That’s just part of the job. That’s all we have to do, because you can capitalize on a person’s strength to help them in the areas in which they are attempting to grow, Right? The areas in which they’re setting their goals. You can say, okay, well, how can we use your strengths to help you, You know, perfect. These or master your goals, reach your goals.
00:35:32:19 – 00:36:11:15 Unknown So we definitely do that work and those are hard. Conversely, options with parents, especially in a student led conference, right? The kid is sitting right there and like you alluded to, you still remember today as a growing adult, like how deflated you felt as a second grader to hear that you weren’t meeting expectations. But then that’s the charge of a teacher to is to say, hey, this is the this is where we’re hoping you would be right now.
00:36:11:17 – 00:36:36:12 Unknown And these are all the things you need to do to get to that point, because at the end of the day, it is about like nurturing, but it’s also about learning and growing. And so trying to have a balance. You don’t want to, you know, crush a second grader sole, but you also don’t want to send them off to third, fourth, fifth grade and beyond.
00:36:36:14 – 00:37:24:09 Unknown And they not be prepared. Yeah, because at that point, the new teacher was just really nice. Your teacher didn’t teach you, right? And so and so trying to find that balance. A lot of times though, depending right, depending on where the child is and their social emotional development right now. Or how they may receive the news, we might go ahead and have that student led conference where we’re celebrating their successes and we’re asking them to set some goals and then we’ll tell them they can go ahead and go outside and play, and then we can have a more in-depth conversation just with the parent about where we’re seeing the gaps and how as a team,
00:37:24:09 – 00:38:11:15 Unknown we’re going to fill those gaps. Yeah, and you know, there are two points here that I kind of want to connect here. First of all, I know that your your mom was an educator and, you know, so she probably knew like very much like in the back of her mind how she was going to help you achieve your goals and, you know, to make sure that if there were any gaps that she knew how to probably be a better teammate with your teachers to get you to that level and, you know, like my mother had zero understanding of what it took, Right?
00:38:11:17 – 00:38:53:14 Unknown Yeah, she sort of outsourced everything and then kind of connecting back to how you were such an advocate when you were younger and, you know, making sure that your that the people that you feel are being unfairly treated are getting their needs met. And I kind of am weaving these sort of pieces together, too, to really, I guess, ask you, when you were younger, did you ever receive that messaging of like you’re not meeting expectations or you’re a little bit behind?
00:38:53:16 – 00:39:29:20 Unknown I guess I’ll maybe start with that question sort of asking you 30 at the same time In my younger years, no, I was a strong student and I and, and, and learning came pretty easy. But I will say when I got to high school and math, especially geometry, trigonometry, algebra two were a challenge and chemistry was a challenge.
00:39:29:22 – 00:39:55:12 Unknown And so as I got into those more challenging subjects, I definitely can relate to what it is that you’re talking about because I had no clue what they were talking about. Even Spanish, right when I took Spanish and was like, my goodness, I think I’m going to be in high school for something because it just I couldn’t the language, it just wasn’t clicking for me.
00:39:55:14 – 00:40:14:16 Unknown So and even in college, right. Because then I only did two years of Spanish in high school. Then I had to go and take it in college and I was like, this is going to be the thing that holds me back my entire life because I really struggle is an understatement, that I really struggled. I really struggled with it.
00:40:14:16 – 00:40:45:15 Unknown So, yes, I did. As I got older, I definitely had those those moments and wondering, how did your parents sort of help you at home to sort of, I guess, meet those gaps or help you struggle less? I guess. I think I mean, other than just getting me a tutor, right? I mean, they definitely did that, especially in in in Spanish.
00:40:45:15 – 00:41:23:23 Unknown Yes, I definitely had a Spanish tutor, but I think there was just an expectation that I had to figure, Right. Whatever, whatever it was, whatever was holding me back, you know, you need to figure it out. Yeah. And they would always offer support. But I don’t have an active memory in as I got older, at least of them sitting down and doing schoolwork with me or helping me with those more challenging, advanced upper level courses.
00:41:24:01 – 00:41:47:19 Unknown It was there was just an expectation to kind of get it done. I definitely remember being young and my mom, I struggled with reading when I was younger, but more so because my attention isn’t the best. And so I definitely remember my mom in the summers because she wouldn’t teach summer school. She’d be home with my sister and I, and she would make me sit down and read with her every single day.
00:41:47:21 – 00:42:12:06 Unknown I distinctly. Remember reading Bridge to Terabithia? I distinctly remember her, you know, making me sit down and read it with her every single day and like, dig in and asking me questions and all of that. But I think it was because I always said I didn’t like to read. I could do it just fine. I just didn’t necessarily prefer to do it.
00:42:12:06 – 00:42:39:20 Unknown And so I remember her kind of making me focus and making me do it. Yeah, Yeah. And, you know, I don’t have any memories of, like, sitting at any kind of table with my mother to sort of do schoolwork. I remember like there was a book report in elementary school that she really had to help me create, you know, like it was her idea.
00:42:39:20 – 00:43:16:22 Unknown And I was sort of just helping, you know, execute that idea. I think the book was like The Whipping Boy or something like that. And, you know, I’m curious, like when you do those student LED conferences with the parents and the children, what kind of expectations does the school or you or you know, that side have for the parents and what they should be doing at home to achieve those gaps versus achieving that at school?
00:43:17:00 – 00:43:54:03 Unknown Yes. So during the pandemic, right, there was this shift, right? Everybody went home and. We didn’t then we thought we were coming back in two weeks and it turned into 14 or 15 months of being away from school. And so parents found themselves in the seat of being the teacher, because as much as we tried and our school did an amazing job online, and I really have to give us the kudos, but it’s because of the strong community, right?
00:43:54:03 – 00:44:34:07 Unknown Everybody pitched in to make sure that we were successful with that. But the heavy lift was on the parents because they were navigating home life. They were navigating the their job right. And managing everyone’s health. And also they instantly became their child’s not first teacher. We always say the parent is the first teacher, but they were kind of like almost maybe, almost the only teacher, right?
00:44:34:07 – 00:45:00:20 Unknown Like the teachers were there. They logged in. They were they were very present. But at the end of the day, when the screen went off, if the child didn’t get it, then, you know, as a parent, you were in the seat of needing to figure out a way for your child to understand it. And teachers offered office hours and they offered, you know, chat rooms and all kinds of supports for parents.
00:45:00:20 – 00:45:29:12 Unknown Right. And they recorded videos and uploaded them so that the teachers could see how they would teach it if they were or the parents could see how they would teach it if they were sitting right next to their child. But at the end of the day, the parent was still the one that was right there. So what we learned in the pandemic is that there were some salient content or concepts that we needed children to know.
00:45:29:13 – 00:46:07:02 Unknown We couldn’t teach them all the things that they would typically learn in the third grade or the fourth grade because we weren’t with them. But we knew that time was continuing. And when they got to the next grade level, there were going to be some concepts that they just had to. And so we were, I guess, exposed to this idea of what we called the big three or what is called the Big three, and we glommed onto it, which is what are the three concepts in reading and the three concepts in math that these students have to know to move on?
00:46:07:04 – 00:46:43:21 Unknown All the rest of it is great, but these three concepts they have to know. And so that is what we did and we share that information with parents. Your second grader must know how to add in the double digits to, you know, with regrouping or whatever it was. This is the one thing that we need them to do so that when they get to third grade, they are going to be ready for the foundation, for the basics.
00:46:43:23 – 00:47:14:12 Unknown And so I think when we have these parent student teacher conferences now, we have to lean on that same idea that like raising a family nowadays is so challenging and there’s many things that fall on parents, right? Even the extracurriculars fall on parents. Right. You know, you used to be able to just go outside and play with your friends or walk to the park and go do your activity.
00:47:14:13 – 00:47:44:12 Unknown None of that, like parents are the Uber drivers. They are they’re everything right. And so to add a whole laundry list of all these things that they also have to teach their child is unrealistic. And so our goal is to say these are the three things that they have to leave knowing. So if they don’t know these things yet, this is what you should be working on at home.
00:47:44:13 – 00:48:22:23 Unknown And you know, then it gives that we give something tangible to our parents. Yeah, No, that, that, that makes absolute sense. And I am wondering because you mentioned that and also from memory that the student body was very diverse. Yes. And so there are like, you know, children with, you know, trust funds and then there are also children coming in from like different parts of maybe like disadvantaged neighborhoods who might have immigrant parents.
00:48:22:23 – 00:48:47:19 Unknown They don’t even speak English, you know, like just they’re just so many there’s probably such a diverse there’s a there’s a bit I don’t even know what to call it a gap or like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, kids come with a wide variety of experiences from a wide variety of neighborhoods in Los Angeles, right? Because we are a magnet school.
00:48:47:20 – 00:49:42:20 Unknown Yeah, they are coming from all over the city and we have busses that are coming in from, you know, from miles and miles away. And so everyone’s experience is extremely different. Yeah. And so I’m curious like, I mean, obviously, you know, you probably have the same expectations for every student, but I’m curious how you sort of balance and navigate, you know, children who have such diverse lived experiences and, you know, like some some children have like very together parents and they have even help in the household where as there are children who have parents who are so totally hands off that they’re not, you know, meeting the needs of their their child’s education, I guess,
00:49:42:20 – 00:50:15:10 Unknown like expectations from the school. And I’m curious, like, how do you sort of balance that support across that spectrum of diverse needs and lived experiences? Yes. So it’s our job. I think I mentioned it earlier. Right. And I’ll just reiterate that it’s our job to find the strengths of every student. And it’s also our job to find the strength in every family, because that’s what we can capitalize on.
00:50:15:12 – 00:50:52:09 Unknown We have no control over so many factors in a child’s life, but the one thing we have control over is what they learn and what they experience when they are with us. And so we just lean in to that and give them the most robust experience that we can offer. And we reach out our hand to every single family and we say, okay, we’re going to partner with you and we’re going to do this together.
00:50:52:14 – 00:51:21:22 Unknown And that partnership looks different for every single family because the needs of every single family is different. And so we just tap in as needed and we just remind parents that we’re your partner first and foremost. And so we just have to constantly just wrap back to that idea of we are a partnership for your child’s best interests.
00:51:22:00 – 00:51:50:16 Unknown And parents are bringing as right, they’re bringing their child to us. They’re bringing their heart and soul to us, right? Like there’s nothing more precious than your child. And so it’s our job to to uncover like what shines in that child and what shines in that family so that so that they can all just be the best that they can be.
00:51:50:18 – 00:52:38:18 Unknown And it helps us to like we get a lot from it as well. Yeah. Now that’s such a that’s such a beautiful way to say that, right? It’s your job to see the strength in every child and also to see the strength in every family. That’s such a it’s such a beautiful way to articulate that. And so I kind of want to spend like the last third of our conversation, just talking a little bit about the future and like the changes are happening globally in the technology technological space lot and, you know, like how the economy is changing and what the workforce is going to look like, you know, in five, ten, 20 years from
00:52:38:18 – 00:53:13:23 Unknown now. And yes, it sounds like there have been a few shifts. You know, like even from when I was a student there. But it seems like, you know, the fundamental tenets and hallmarks of are all still there. And so, yeah. And so I kind of wanted to ask you a little bit about like, well, during the pandemic, like you mentioned things, but because of the strength of the community that that online curriculum sort of really worked.
00:53:14:00 – 00:53:58:19 Unknown And, you know, after the pandemic so much happened, like with the micro schooling movement, you know, learning pods and like lots of these like alternative schooling opportunities pop up. Yes. And I feel like there’s so much that and homeschooling kind of got even bigger. And so so I think during the pandemic, I think there was a lot of show or display that the traditional, I guess, schooling, the conventional schooling model wasn’t working, especially at the elementary school level.
00:53:58:19 – 00:54:39:18 Unknown And I think, you know, but I think I guess nationwide and in lots of different countries, too, like there was a question raised because of the pandemic, you know, teachers had certain expectations and schools had certain expectations to educate the children outside of the home. And then when the pandemic happened, parents realized just how much work teachers were doing and what they what the students all had to learn.
00:54:39:18 – 00:55:20:14 Unknown And they realized, my gosh, why was I not a part of my child’s education journey? Why was I not more active within it? And so there was like such tension and struggle. And I think that really sort of shook up how everybody started to think about the purpose of education and and what what are the important things that we need to take away from schools and what are some things that parents should be doing more to be involved in the student’s lives and their their upbringing and their, you know, growth in life?
00:55:20:16 – 00:55:48:00 Unknown And then also, I’m seeing that there’s been like a huge ripple in the workforce as well and in the economy because, you know, like parents are wanting to be where they’re needing to be and wanting to be more involved in their children’s life and growth. And also like the whole work from home kind of happened. And there was just so many ripples, I think, in society.
00:55:48:00 – 00:56:24:17 Unknown As And so I’m curious for you, like given what the pandemic revealed about the shifting roles and expectations of students, students, families and teachers, what are some, I guess, prediction INS that you have about what will happen in both schools and at the at home and also in the workforce, in the economy, in the real world? Like what kinds of balances need to like?
00:56:24:17 – 00:57:09:11 Unknown What are some roles that need to be registered you did or rethought or reimagined, right. I guess I don’t know if that question makes sense, but you know, it makes sense. It’s it’s it’s layered, right. But it makes sense. I think that well, the thing that I thought of as you were asking, the thing that seems most pressing or most different, right, is that social emotional learning that was a part of school pre-pandemic, but now it is the center of what has to be done in school.
00:57:09:13 – 00:58:00:11 Unknown Our children came back completely different than they left us. Their needs are so much greater, and especially when we’re talking about on a social emotional level, they left us like happy and connected and fully invested in school and in their friends, right, and all of that. And we all came back and, you know, 14 months in the in the life of a child is forever, right?
00:58:00:11 – 00:58:39:06 Unknown So for 14 months they were not able to physically socialize with their peers. When they came back, they could socialize, but only to a certain degree because they’re masked like at that age, they’re learning how to read facelifts sessions. So they got none of the social cues that you get from a very young age because our faces were covered, our facial expressions were covered, right?
00:58:39:07 – 00:59:09:20 Unknown So they hadn’t been around people. And then when they got around people, they couldn’t read the person’s facial expressions. They had to be at least six feet apart. So they maybe didn’t catch social cues. Right. Like all of those things. And so and just being scared to be around people, right? Like, this is a real thing. And people were scared to be around one another.
00:59:09:20 – 00:59:39:21 Unknown So even though we have on these masks and we’re six feet apart, I still don’t necessarily want to be around you or because I’m scared that you may have something and then I’m going to have it and it’s, you know, so we you’re talking about five year olds, you know, or who that was. They’re pretty much their entire like life existence.
00:59:39:22 – 01:00:20:11 Unknown Was this really scary in our worlds history in which they couldn’t be with friends, make friends, learn how to socialize so when we came back our kids that left is a second grader, came back like a second grader. And in in this emotionally in their ability to socialize with one another. Right. That was really challenging. And so we’re just now coming out of that.
01:00:20:13 – 01:01:10:15 Unknown Right. We went back in, if I remember correctly, I think it was April of 21, but we’re just now coming up on April of 24, three years later. We are just now getting to a point where our children are have learned how to socialize, how to problem solve, how to make friends, how to not take everything personal, right, to not think that everything that everybody does is targeted at them because they didn’t have the practice.
01:01:10:15 – 01:01:35:18 Unknown Right. School is also a daily practice of how to just be in the world and be with people and they didn’t have that practice. And something is as minuscule or what we would think is unimportant as like knowing when it’s your turn to talk in a conversation session or knowing when it’s your turn to talk in class, right?
01:01:35:18 – 01:02:05:07 Unknown Like everybody was on mute. They could just talk whenever they wanted to talk. But then they came back to school and they had to actually take turns having a conversation and actually listen to what somebody is saying to and pick up on their body language in their cues. And so when you were asking that question, that’s kind of what I thought about is the socialization piece that they came back not having at all.
01:02:05:12 – 01:02:37:12 Unknown And so you have to have your basic needs met in order to learn. And so many of our students came back no fault to any families or any parents, Right. Like it just is what it is. We all came back with our we all came back afraid, but we also all came back with our emotional needs, having not been met for a really extended period of time.
01:02:37:14 – 01:03:10:09 Unknown And so that’s been our focus, honestly. I mean, yes, we have a duty to address the academic needs of our children and we do that. But first and foremost, we had to come back and center children and their emotional needs and their socialization needs first and foremost. So there’s so school now is built around the social aspect of engagement.
01:03:10:11 – 01:03:41:19 Unknown I wouldn’t necessarily say more than the academic part, but it’s highlighted differently than it was in the past. Yeah, right. You thought of school is where you go, you made a friend at school. That’s great. Now it’s like it’s our duty to make sure that they also have friends and that they have, like, life experiences that go beyond the classroom.
01:03:41:22 – 01:04:09:07 Unknown Right? Right now, it’s like a lot of field trips. It’s a lot of the art, it’s a lot of sports. It’s a lot of after school programing, Right? It’s it’s all of that because they missed out on a lot of it, but because they also needed it for their soul. So that’s how it’s different, what that looks like in 15 years.
01:04:09:07 – 01:04:44:09 Unknown I mean, we are creating a world for which we don’t know what the world is going to be like. Technology is moving at lightning speed and humans can’t move that fast and we can’t adjust that fast. And so our goal at our school is to produce thinkers and people who are able to be resourceful because we don’t know what we’re preparing you for, but we know that we’re preparing for a world that’s different than the world we’re in now.
01:04:44:11 – 01:05:15:13 Unknown And so what that looks like is how do you adjust, how do you pivot, how do you collaborate, how do you communicate, How do you, you know, outsource, Right? How do you find the resources that you need? How do you capitalize on your strengths? How do you find the people in your sphere that maybe are strong in something that you are still working on?
01:05:15:15 – 01:05:43:19 Unknown Right. So it’s all of those things are what we’re trying to teach our kids, right? And that taking initiative and being kind are like really key when you get out there in the real world. So that’s that’s we don’t know what we’re preparing them for, but we hope that they’re going to be ready because they’ll have those in life, I guess, what they call soft skills.
01:05:43:19 – 01:06:16:14 Unknown But they’re probably the most important skills that we that we will ever possess. Yeah, No, that’s that’s brilliant. And you’re right. I think when I look back to being a student at school, there were so many opportunities and I wouldn’t even say opportunities because that was just the norm to be creating these pockets of collaboration and these project based learning.
01:06:16:16 – 01:06:46:23 Unknown I mean, you know, when I tell people like, yeah, you know, Red Cluster was all about learning dinosaurs, people are like, What? Right, right, exactly. And I’m like, yeah, and you know, purple cluster, we were very social activist, you know, like I boycotted Proctor and Gamble for like many, many years. You know, we built this calendar like, I think there they’re just so memorable.
01:06:46:23 – 01:07:30:18 Unknown And I think when you’re younger and there’s a lot of research, I think even in reading and in literacy, that the more, I guess, exposure you have to something, the better connection you have to that material. And so, you know, when people like I think I was listening to podcasts and they were talking about how, you know, the the boy and his parents were real estate agents and so they were constantly talking about like prices of house homes and lots of math.
01:07:30:18 – 01:08:04:10 Unknown And and so when they got to a reading unit in class, this boy really shined because he understood how the housing market worked, because his parents are constantly talking about that at home. And so, you know, there’s I think a lot of research around when a student has or a young person has exposure to a certain knowledge area, that they’ll do better in that area because they have a lot of exposure to it.
01:08:04:12 – 01:08:34:09 Unknown And so when I look back, I think about I was constantly exposed to experiences that are really relevant in the real world, you know, like the whole social activism piece and purple cluster, like understanding the world problem, defining and coming up with solutions that are community oriented and that are collaborative, that you work with the community that’s so important right now.
01:08:34:09 – 01:08:58:09 Unknown Like an entrepreneur worship, it’s just so relevant and, and I just feel so adequate, not based on, you know, what I went to school for or like, you know, university or even high school or middle school. But elementary school, I learned the fundamentals of life in elementary school. And I don’t think everybody can say same. No, I would agree.
01:08:58:09 – 01:09:46:10 Unknown Yeah. And it’s still that way to this day. And I was actually at a birthday party for a family friend. And the person that I sat next to, she was and it just so happened she was in like I think the founding class, right. On a whole different school campus. Right. Years and years and years ago. But she spoke so, so highly of her experience at the school, just like you are and just like my children do and just like tons and tons of alumni that come back all the time to like literally we have visitors that are alumni at least a couple of times a week.
01:09:46:12 – 01:10:27:00 Unknown If it’s not a student, it’s their family or their parents, right? So there’s a connection. There’s like a pool to come back and to kind of just see, is it still the same or to see or just or to just shout out their teachers or to find a way to give back to the community. But yes, everywhere I go, for the most part, like 99% of the time, our alumni are speaking so highly of their experience and their expression is like front of mind.
01:10:27:00 – 01:10:51:17 Unknown Yeah, they don’t have to like dig deep to try to remember elementary school like it is sitting right here in their heart. Yeah. And I think, you know, part of that is because, like, childhood is such an important time and it really does inform a lot of our adult life in many ways. And you were talking about like that social emotional piece.
01:10:51:19 – 01:11:48:13 Unknown That’s kind of when we learn to engage with the world and develop our nervous system. And so it really does make sense that elementary school is such an important period and it sits with you. But I think what makes school so unique is how really truly they center the children, and that’s why they feel so positive about their childhood experience, because they they were able to connect with people on a level that really mimics, I think, real life on how to connect with in real life and engage in projects and opportunities to really leave the world a little bit better than you found it in many ways.
01:11:48:15 – 01:12:22:10 Unknown And so and so I would love to know like sort of the take aways of, you know, a lot of my audience are are people who are either homeschooling or thinking of homeschooling or, you know, have kind of wanted to leave the conventional education space to pursue better opportunities. And so I guess for you, like are there any things that you would want parents or educators to know that that that we could benefit from knowing?
01:12:22:12 – 01:12:57:06 Unknown Yeah, I think which would I think homeschooling the essence of homeschooling is centering children, right? It is about figuring out where their child’s interests lie and finding all the different ways to try to provide those opportunities and then obviously we have to do with the things that we just have to learn. But you know the crux of it, right?
01:12:57:06 – 01:13:36:06 Unknown The the the reason it probably is created is so that children can hone in on what they are interested in and take that as wide and as far and as deep as they can. And so I think it mirrors constructivism and in a great way, because that’s what we set out to do every single day, right, is to send our kids and ask them what they’re interested in and give them space to explore what they’re interested in.
01:13:36:07 – 01:14:21:06 Unknown Now, obviously, it’s harder to do with 48 children or 58 children in a classroom versus, you know, one or two or a pod of kids at home. But the essence is still there because the goal is to like, create space for young minds to grow and flourish and, you know, just learn as much as they possibly can. So that’s I think we’re doing the same work just in a different way.
01:14:21:08 – 01:14:58:10 Unknown Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I guess this last question for you, I think a lot of the things that I hear from, I guess critics or of home schooling and things like that is the socialization piece which I think we were talking about. Yeah. How do you envision or hope or have suggestions for people who are in smaller communities and and micro schools or home schooling?
01:14:58:12 – 01:15:32:00 Unknown How can we still socialize our children in a way where they don’t feel like they’re disconnected from the community? Yes, that socialization piece is critical. And so it could be, you know, projects that they can do with other students that are home schooled or family friends or cousins. You know, they could even do it with stoop with kids that actually, you know, go to a brick and mortar school.
01:15:32:00 – 01:16:18:03 Unknown That’s fine. But just opportunities to collaborate and work together and compromise. Right. That’s a that’s a big piece of being in the world is being able to compromise, being able to understand other people’s perspectives and be respectful of those perspectives and, you know, give push back when need be. But to have a balanced conversation where you’re giving information, opinions and ideas and facts, but you’re also receiving those as well.
01:16:18:05 – 01:16:50:15 Unknown And coming out on the other end of the conversation with an elevated understanding that you didn’t necessarily need to change your mind, but an elevated understanding. Right. And so socializing gives those opportunities for all of that. Also, I know in a lot of home school settings, children will do like their P.E. together or they’ll do some field trips together.
01:16:50:21 – 01:17:19:03 Unknown Right. So just other opportunities to work with and make friends because like, that’s what life is all about, right? Like at the end the day, we just want to have a friend. At the end of the day, we just want to have somebody to talk to, to spend some time with, whether we’re a person that loves the social life or we’re, you know, more introverted.
01:17:19:05 – 01:18:01:16 Unknown At the end of the day, everybody still wants at least one friend. It’s so true. That’s really true. My goodness. This was a really, really wonderful conversation. And you had me thinking about so many other things that I wanted to talk to you about and ask you about. But this has been so insightful and thank you for this time to let me, I guess, be nostalgic about my my childhood, the school that your principal love and for sharing a bit about your own childhood and things like that.
01:18:01:18 – 01:18:29:07 Unknown So I just wanted to thank you for this opportunity and for this time, because I’m not going to get the quote exact. But John F Kennedy said that you can you can tell how successful a school has been if you measure it by its alumni and what they are doing in the world. Right. The impact that they’re making.
01:18:29:07 – 01:19:01:05 Unknown And so just being with you today, it’s a testament to our beautiful school. But the impact that I know you are making is deep and it’s great and it’s valued. And I appreciate you asking me to share this time with you, but I enjoy being with our alumni just as much as you’ve enjoyed this exchange, because It’s a wonderful place and is a wonderful place that has produced amazing human beings.
01:19:01:06 – 01:19:15:18 Unknown So thank you for continuing the legacy of our beautiful school. Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.