Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Taylor, an educator and reading specialist—about her experience being a public school teacher, and what contributed to her leaving the system. We talk about the literacy crisis in America, what the root cause is, what systemic factors are perpetuating it, and what she would do differently if she were to change it. We also discuss what general changes she would make if she were helming the education ship, and what efforts she’s working towards to help parents and their children find success in reading.
Here is our conversation.
Auto-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:13 – 00:00:24:10
Speaker 1
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded.
00:00:24:10 – 00:00:25:00
Speaker 2
Programs.
00:00:25:06 – 00:00:49:11
Speaker 1
And small academies. I design curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, had not received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale.
00:00:49:13 – 00:01:16:10
Speaker 1
To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems. To rethink what schools can be, what it should be. When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Taylor, an educator and reading specialist, about her experience being a public school teacher and what contributed to her leaving the system.
00:01:16:12 – 00:01:43:20
Speaker 1
We talk about the literacy crisis in America, what the root cause might be, what systemic factors are perpetuating it, and what she would do differently. We also discuss what general changes she would make if she were helming the education ship, and what efforts she’s working towards now to help parents and their children find success in reading. Here is our conversation.
00:01:43:22 – 00:02:08:03
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh, I’ve never been asked. This is such a good question. As a child I was a direction follower for sure. I was pretty, like, shy. And I feel like I just listened to authority figures. And and kind of I. Yeah, like, just follow directions. I think most of it was because my brother was a troublemaker and he was five years older than me.
00:02:08:03 – 00:02:36:19
Speaker 2
So I kind of watched his behavior and I was like, well, I guess I should do the opposite. So and just like, make my parents life easier a little bit, you know? And I love him. I think, like, we balance each other very well in our family. But, yeah, for that reason, I loved school. And just because I was a direction follower and there’s so many directions in school and everything is so structured and explicit, and that made a lot of sense to me.
00:02:36:19 – 00:02:59:14
Speaker 2
And I, and I felt safe in that kind of environment. And so the messaging I received from my teachers, I guess, was positive messaging. And I know that I’m very lucky and privileged to be able to say that, that I was able to connect with all of my teachers. I think a lot of my teachers, mostly all of them, looks like me too, like race.
00:02:59:16 – 00:03:19:07
Speaker 2
Which again, very privileged to be able to say that. So for me, school was super easy. For a lot of those reasons, for my personality, for what I looked like. And I was in the majority, like, I looked like the majority of my class as well. So all those things growing up, I didn’t even realize.
00:03:19:07 – 00:03:31:02
Speaker 2
But being a teacher now, I realize how lucky I was to to just be who I was growing up in my the small town I grew up in outside of Pittsburgh.
00:03:31:04 – 00:03:57:13
Speaker 1
Wow. Thank you so much for sharing that. I think it’s like, I don’t know, it feels very, authentic for you to say that in it, feels very vulnerable, too. So thank you for sharing that. I’m curious what kind of, classes did you enjoy? Like what? What were your, your strengths, I guess, and also, maybe some of your weaknesses if you’re comfortable sharing the letter.
00:03:57:15 – 00:04:00:19
Speaker 2
Of course. Yeah. Growing up, you mean, right?
00:04:00:20 – 00:04:02:06
Speaker 1
Yes. Yes, yes.
00:04:02:08 – 00:04:19:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Growing up, I loved reading. I guess I loved writing. I don’t know, I never really like I did, I guess I did like writing a lot because I had, like, a journal or, you know, like a, like a private diary when I was little. And I guess if I didn’t like to write, I would not write, wrote in that or written in that.
00:04:19:22 – 00:04:42:03
Speaker 2
But, reading was definitely my favorite, which makes sense as to I’m a reading specialist today, so that that makes sense. My weaknesses, I would say probably the sciences. I loved them as a concept, but I don’t think I ever really dove into it as much. I, I don’t know, maybe I just didn’t like it as much.
00:04:42:03 – 00:04:59:01
Speaker 2
So I didn’t spend as much time trying to perfect that. I, I liked math, but I didn’t love it. I know, like, a lot of people are going to be like, oh, I hated math, but I didn’t really hate either, which I guess, like, makes sense for why I became a teacher because I didn’t really hate any of the subjects.
00:04:59:03 – 00:05:05:03
Speaker 2
But luckily, as a teacher, I did not have to teach science. So that worked out for me.
00:05:05:05 – 00:05:22:07
Speaker 1
That’s hilarious. I was wondering, like, what kind of, expectations did your caregivers have for you? Or what did they hope you would become? Or what kind of future did they sort of vision out for you?
00:05:22:09 – 00:05:47:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don’t know. I had amazing parents, honestly. And I’m lucky that they’re still together to this day, so it was a very cohesive, messaging for me. They they really just. I think they had expectations that I would go to college. Definitely. And that I would have a job of some sort. But it was not an expectation of a certain type of job.
00:05:47:12 – 00:06:07:18
Speaker 2
My dad is a dentist and my mom is a hygienist, and she works for him. And so that’s an amazing job, right? Like, they’re very successful, but they never really expected that I would follow that. I think they wanted me to. So I could maybe take over the family business one day. But they did not pressure me in any way.
00:06:07:19 – 00:06:30:08
Speaker 2
And so, yeah, I guess the expectation was just to be successful academically. But I never felt that really weighing heavy on me. And I guess, like we talked earlier because I did love school. It was something that I was good at and I excelled in it. Just. Yeah. And I love the structure of it, and I loved that.
00:06:30:10 – 00:06:57:08
Speaker 2
Okay, give me an assignment. I’ll work hard on it, and then most likely, I’ll succeed. It’s like a very straightforward path. And. Yeah. I think as adults it’s not as straightforward now. So that’s something that a lot of, struggle with after. But but yeah, I think, I think I was lucky again in that I never felt a lot of pressure from my parents, but there was a little bit in that.
00:06:57:10 – 00:07:18:03
Speaker 2
They wanted me to be successful in that. I had a job, you know, some some job. So I think they were really proud of me when I became a teacher. They I think they saw the value in that. And, and, they still tell me today because I left the classroom and they’re like, oh, we wish you, you know, you would find your way back maybe.
00:07:18:05 – 00:07:24:15
Speaker 2
And again, they’re not pressuring me, but I just, I think that they liked that for me because I was good at it, too. So.
00:07:24:17 – 00:07:59:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, that’s really lovely. I mean, I love to hear when, you know, like, people share about how there was a lot of connection and cohesion. There weren’t any issues with the family unit, and it seemed like there was a lot of stability. And so that’s really awesome. I’m wondering, What you studied in college and, did you know that you wanted to become a reading specialist, or when did that become an a viable option for you?
00:07:59:22 – 00:08:23:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. In college, I studied elementary education. And I went on to get my masters in special education. And it was during my master’s year, actually, that I. It fell in love with how we learned to read. A lot of people believe it’s very straightforward, but it’s not, it’s actually not natural for us to read because of our ancestors.
00:08:23:23 – 00:08:44:13
Speaker 2
Like, we’re storytellers and we’re big on language. And speaking and listening, but not reading and writing. And so our brain is just not wired for that. And, you know, you hear of the kids who pick it up so easily. But they’re the lucky ones. You know, they’re there’s I don’t know why they pick it up so easily.
00:08:44:13 – 00:09:00:13
Speaker 2
And maybe you and I were. We’re both those kids, I don’t know. I wish I could, like, watch myself as a younger person and see how I was not you or not. Yeah. Oh, then. Then. Yeah, it’s it’s. But most of us are not.
00:09:00:15 – 00:09:00:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:09:00:22 – 00:09:29:01
Speaker 2
So it’s, it’s more normal or typical for the kids to, to struggle a little bit to learn how to read. It’s just not a natural process. And I learned a lot about dyslexia in my master’s program. I went to the University of Florida, and I can honestly say they did an amazing job, teaching us the science of reading, which I’m sure a lot of people hear about today, but it’s it’s just research that’s been out forever.
00:09:29:03 – 00:09:54:11
Speaker 2
That’s been largely ignored. And so teaching kids how to read it just it’s very rewarding. And I guess, like, I never thought about like this, but going back to our previous part of the conversation, it’s very structured. Right. You follow, very explicit phonics lesson and you build the kids, build on that knowledge, and then it leads to success.
00:09:54:13 – 00:10:00:05
Speaker 2
So I think, again, it’s just that, like structured routine that I’ve always really liked.
00:10:00:07 – 00:10:28:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. I, want to ask you this one piece, of information before we move forward, but, you said that you, specialized in special education. So you did elementary education, and then in in for your master’s degree. You specialize in special education. And I’m wondering what led you to that particular specialization?
00:10:28:09 – 00:10:50:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s a great. I love that you’re asking me these questions because I’ve never really thought about them myself. Well, selfishly, I like I, I would be lying if there wasn’t a selfish part I knew would make me more marketable. Right? And looking for jobs like there’s more that I could do. I wasn’t just limiting myself to general education.
00:10:50:09 – 00:11:15:20
Speaker 2
And on the other side, I have family members on my dad’s side who, were in special education, and they, they have different, like, needs. And I just think there was probably some influence from my dad without realizing it. To take that path there. I mean, of course, I grew up with kids too, who are in the special education classes, but, I can’t say like, I wish there was, like one story that.
00:11:15:22 – 00:11:34:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, like, stuck with me or something, but I maybe it was just all my experiences combined, and I honestly, I didn’t really think too deeply about it. I was just like, that’s clearly the better option. Like, why would I not want to be more informed, to help more students? It was kind of that that’s kind of how I thought of it.
00:11:34:08 – 00:11:59:04
Speaker 2
But I’m so glad that I. That I did that, because I actually taught special education for my entire career, so I didn’t even realize that that would be my path. And I’m so thankful for it because I learned so much more than I would have, not just in my master’s program, but from my teaching experiences, like the kids that I got to work with.
00:11:59:06 – 00:12:05:22
Speaker 2
I just learned so much from them, and how to be a better teacher. So I’m so grateful for it.
00:12:06:00 – 00:12:36:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I think that there’s like this thread of, like, you valuing inclusion, and, trying to appease maybe some, minority members or, like, people who fall outside of maybe the standard. So I think I am detecting this thread within maybe your value system and the way that you speak. So, you know, I guess that that’s maybe an important, piece, too.
00:12:36:23 – 00:12:59:17
Speaker 1
I wanted to ask you about, the reading crisis. Right? Hurt like the literacy crisis happening in the States. I was wondering if you could share a little bit about, your knowledge of that and your experience with that, like, directly, either in the classroom or working with students?
00:12:59:18 – 00:13:25:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I think for me, since I am a reading specialist in my classrooms, at least I was always doing my part to help students. Who were just not, you know, reading on grade level. Of course, every kid learns at their own, at their own pace and at their own development. But, you know, for the for the average, right, for the, average data for the kids who aren’t on level quite yet.
00:13:25:09 – 00:13:25:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:13:26:01 – 00:13:51:07
Speaker 2
For my, my coworkers and I, I was lucky again. I taught in Chicago and New York, and I taught with amazing educators who who knew what the science of reading. Right. So data that’s been out there forever. So we were doing our part. And so I didn’t really occur to me throughout my first, maybe 5 to 8 years of teaching in the classroom that teachers just didn’t know how to teach reading.
00:13:51:07 – 00:14:16:14
Speaker 2
And it’s not their fault. It’s literally not their fault. It’s not like they’re trying to harm anyone or that they’re trying not to know. It’s just how they learned. And because my experience at the University of Florida was so different, I just saw everyone learn that way. And so I didn’t really think too much about the literacy crisis of course, I always heard, oh, wait, we have a literacy crisis.
00:14:16:14 – 00:14:41:06
Speaker 2
We have a literacy crisis. And I definitely saw kids who are not on grade level, but it didn’t really hit me until recently. We moved to New York in 2021 and I taught fourth grade, a fourth grade inclusion classroom. And it was just insane. There were, there was there were kids who, I guess you could say were on a kindergarten reading level.
00:14:41:08 – 00:15:09:15
Speaker 2
They had like kindergarten reading skills. Then there are kids with you were reading, you know, the middle school level. And then there were kids at fourth grade level. And it was just like there was 33 of them. And I’m like, how am I supposed to teach all of these kids the same thing? Like, it’s like it’s morally like not okay, you know, like it’s not their fault again, but there’s not enough time in the day for me to reach every single one of their needs.
00:15:09:17 – 00:15:30:16
Speaker 2
A lot of them did have special education services, and, you know, they maybe are pushing services or pull out services for that, but it’s still not enough to overcome years of, like not being able to read. Right. And so I actually did some research on this because, I have it pulled up so I don’t misspeak.
00:15:30:18 – 00:16:06:06
Speaker 2
But in 2019, they took some data, the National Assessment of Educational Progress. They took data on us fourth graders. And us fourth graders are typically chosen for this data, because that’s kind of the grade where everything changes. I would say it’s more like third grade, where they start reading to learn instead of learning to read. But fourth grade, you come in and you’re expected to know how to read like there’s it’s really all reading to learn social studies, science, even math.
00:16:06:07 – 00:16:46:19
Speaker 2
You’re reading to learn things. So if you don’t know how to read, it’s you’re in a crisis, right? So in 2019, 66% of us fourth graders were not proficient in reading. And that was before Covid. And then in 2022, it jumped up to 68. Which doesn’t seem like a lot, but that’s huge. That’s two percentage points. And then if you dive into by race, we see that of those like 60%, it says 84% of black students are not proficient.
00:16:46:21 – 00:17:14:13
Speaker 2
80% of Hispanic students are not proficient. Two or more races or 63%. And then American Indian is 82%. And then we see like the white population is 59%. So it’s still high, but it’s not as high as like the 80%. And then it’s really interesting because we see Asian and Pacific Islander has stayed constant at 45%.
00:17:14:15 – 00:17:38:14
Speaker 2
So I just think it’s it’s very interesting. And it kind of matches exactly what I saw in my own classroom of of the students who couldn’t read like that data really speaks to me. And like, that’s not okay. 84%, of students who are black of that, like 68% cannot read or like are not proficient in reading.
00:17:38:16 – 00:17:58:01
Speaker 2
I don’t know. I’m just like, this is not okay like that. That is such a high number and just a 68% in general is so high. Like, how are how are we okay as a nation with 68% of our fourth graders are not proficient in reading? And again, we I would love to see that data broken down.
00:17:58:01 – 00:18:11:13
Speaker 2
Like, what exactly does that mean? How are they getting that? You know what what, tests or assessments are those coming from. But still, it’s 60% like we know there’s a problem, right?
00:18:11:15 – 00:18:42:03
Speaker 1
I’m kind of curious if, you know, like, because, you know, you specialized in elementary education. Or and so I’m wondering, like, what do you think was missing or what do you think are some contributing factors to why that proficiency level or why the literacy or why a lot of these fourth graders are not up to standard, by the time they get to fourth grade.
00:18:42:05 – 00:18:45:08
Speaker 1
What do you think are the contributing factors?
00:18:45:10 – 00:19:07:08
Speaker 2
That’s a great question. There’s a lot that goes into it. A lot. So I’ll try to summarize it. First of all, it’s like the curriculum that’s chosen. Like I’ve said before, the science of reading or whatever. The name kind of annoys me because it’s just it’s always then the research is just like what they’re calling it now.
00:19:07:10 – 00:19:35:07
Speaker 2
But that was not inter like, woven into the curriculum at all because schools it’s not just schools fault, but who you know, whoever was pushing the agenda for whole language theory. Yeah. Which is whole language theory is basically, kids should just look at the whole word and memorize it instead of breaking down the word into their sounds.
00:19:35:09 – 00:20:05:10
Speaker 2
And even like when kids are a little, they’re reading those, like, cute little picture books and it’s like, oh, well, look at the picture and look at the word. What’s the word? And like, so bad. And so then by the time they get to third grade, right when there’s no more pictures and the words get way more complex with, content specific vocabulary like math words that you cannot sound out, or science words that you just you can’t guess, right?
00:20:05:12 – 00:20:26:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So whole language theory curriculums that align with that were, were being implemented in a lot of schools. And, and that’s kind of what I was talking about earlier with teachers not knowing how to teach reading, but it’s not their fault. They were told a whole language theory is effective, right? So that’s one piece of it.
00:20:26:08 – 00:20:48:02
Speaker 2
Phonics not being implemented. I think a lot of that has to do with funding. Not enough money for reading specialists. And if there are reading specialists in the school, they get pulled to be a sub for the day or they get pulled to do, I don’t know, a million things that they shouldn’t be doing. That’s not their job description.
00:20:48:04 – 00:20:51:22
Speaker 2
Then I think.
00:20:52:00 – 00:21:15:23
Speaker 2
Kids schools these days, they don’t want to hold back kids, because it makes their data look bad. And so they’ll push kids on to a new grade level, even if they know they should not be moving on. Like, a kid could be flat out failing. For whatever reason. That doesn’t mean they’re not intelligent. Maybe they didn’t have the home support that they needed that year, and maybe they were struggling for a million other reasons.
00:21:15:23 – 00:21:40:16
Speaker 2
But regardless, they should not be pushed on to the next grade if they’re not ready. Schools are very worried about their data. And all of my experience comes from public schools, so I cannot speak for any type of private or charter. But, and I feel like some of the best schools, I would say, and in New York, in Chicago, just because the staff was amazing, amazing, amazing teachers.
00:21:40:16 – 00:22:06:14
Speaker 2
And like these things are still happening. And so, yeah, I would say not wanting to hold kids back. Whole language theory, no phonics instruction. A lack of funding, I would say, and also the curriculum. So I know we spoke a little bit on threads. Lucy Calkins. Her units of study are just not inclusive at all.
00:22:06:16 – 00:22:29:18
Speaker 2
It’s very much, written about white experiences and like, white, background knowledge, which seems crazy. Like, how can that how can, like, experiences only be like white people experiences. But they were like some, most of my kids, like they would just look at me like, what are you talking about? When we when we had to teach it.
00:22:29:20 – 00:22:33:16
Speaker 2
So that’s that’s kind of what I would say. Sorry. I don’t know if I spoke too much on that.
00:22:33:18 – 00:22:58:14
Speaker 1
Oh, that was pretty thorough. Thank you for sharing all of those, factors. I wanted to ask you about this piece because, I was a teacher for, like, 15 years, but never, like, I, I hesitate because I don’t want to say I wasn’t a real teacher because I think all teachers are real. But, you know, like, I don’t have a teaching credential.
00:22:58:14 – 00:23:27:19
Speaker 1
And so that’s kind of where my hesitation comes from. So I did work in public schools, but, there’s this one piece that I don’t understand. And I think it’s kind of politics and, like, authority related and then government related, because it’s like, why is it up to certain states or districts to be able to choose their own curriculum, right, when it comes to reading?
00:23:27:23 – 00:23:48:00
Speaker 1
Like, why is it not like a unified decision? Why is it not like, oh, the science of reading, which we’ve known about for ages? Why is that, being overlooked? Why is that not, you know, universally, like, accepted, right? I’m kind of curious if you know why.
00:23:48:00 – 00:24:14:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. Honestly, I wish I had the answer to that. I completely agree with everything you’re saying. I think a there’s not enough teachers, or just people with with knowledge. Right. When specifically it should be like reading knowledge or math knowledge. You know, everyone cannot be an expert on all of these things. Otherwise I that person would have no free time.
00:24:15:00 – 00:24:41:12
Speaker 2
But I think people with knowledge are not empowered to make these decisions. I think that speaks a lot to the politics in America. You know, you can buy your way into the school board. I don’t know. People have their own agendas. And I think in America, again, you just need money and influence and the right connections to be in the positions of power where they’re making these decisions.
00:24:41:14 – 00:25:01:17
Speaker 2
I, I know for I bring up Florida a lot because I went to school there. So, you know, I was around a lot of Florida education for a long time. And I just think there’s this big push in Florida for, like, parents making a lot of decisions, like school choice. And, and I think choice is very powerful.
00:25:01:19 – 00:25:28:15
Speaker 2
However, that can be very detrimental to the education system. Yeah. And so I just think, yeah, the people who are, who are making these decisions and giving people this choice, they don’t really know what they’re talking about. They’re not they’re not educators or they’re not specialists. They’re politicians. And I think we see that in, in more than just education.
00:25:28:17 – 00:25:42:12
Speaker 2
They’re making decisions medically that they have no idea what they’re talking about. So, yeah, I think it’s just America’s political culture right now, which really stinks. And a lot of people are unhappy with it in general.
00:25:42:14 – 00:26:24:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, right. There’s a lot wrong. And you’re right, there are a lot of, threads here. That and I kind of actually want to, rewind a little bit and ask you about, this piece. You know, school choice. So I’m not. I’ve been kind of trying to research this piece, but maybe you might have better requisite information than I do to actually arrive at a more educated response, but, you know, like, back in, I think 2000, I can’t remember now.
00:26:24:11 – 00:26:30:11
Speaker 1
It was was it Trump? Oh, yes. Sorry. Yeah. During,
00:26:30:13 – 00:26:32:02
Speaker 2
No. Your time at all?
00:26:32:04 – 00:26:45:14
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Just political theater. But during the Trump administration, he, Betsy DeVos, I think, was like the head of education, and she was.
00:26:45:15 – 00:26:47:01
Speaker 2
I really forgot about her.
00:26:47:03 – 00:27:29:11
Speaker 1
I know, right. Like, tried to repress all that, but, she was really big on the school vouchers system, and, Yeah, she was very big on that. And now we’re talking a lot about, like, school voucher, school vouchers. Sorry, not school vouchers. School choice. And there’s like, I don’t I don’t know if you’ve heard, but, maybe you have, but like, there’s this whole thing about project 2025 and how they really want to dismantle all like centralized education or like the Department of Education and bring in all of these, you know, school choice things.
00:27:29:11 – 00:27:39:21
Speaker 1
And I’m wondering like, what is the difference, right, between the voucher system, and the school choice system?
00:27:39:23 – 00:27:43:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I, I’m not sure I’ve heard of the voucher system.
00:27:44:00 – 00:27:46:02
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:27:46:04 – 00:28:06:22
Speaker 2
For me, just. Yeah. Look this up real quick. I know, school choice. And I think it’s honestly a little bit of ignorance on my part because I’ve taught in big city schools and, like, it’s just you’re zoned for whatever public schools closest to you. And so I, I didn’t have to deal with all of that stuff.
00:28:07:00 – 00:28:07:17
Speaker 1
Oh, no worries.
00:28:07:18 – 00:28:37:17
Speaker 2
But I know school choice. It’s like giving parents, like, the ability, like to choose. I think they might rank it or something. I’m not sure, because everyone can’t possibly get their number one right. So it might be like a ranked, choice, but it looks like they offer alternatives to public school too. But but the reason why I know there’s there’s a lot in what you said, so I want to make sure I hit all of it.
00:28:37:17 – 00:29:08:19
Speaker 2
But the reason why school choice for me is such an issue. It pump, it pumps more money into this, into the schools that everyone wants to go to. Right. And then it leaves little to no resources to the other schools. And and also it, it’s like just it’s putting certain schools on, like a pedestal and leaving the others to us, like, I don’t know, it’s just that should never be a thing.
00:29:08:19 – 00:29:35:07
Speaker 2
I think every single school that every kid goes to should have like, just as many resources as the other, which plays probably into race again and economic resources, and it kind of just feeds into the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, that kind of narrative. It just goes against everything that I believe in. And I know public schools are not perfect.
00:29:35:12 – 00:30:02:14
Speaker 2
I’ve worked in them. They’re not, there’s a lot that we need to fix there. But by doing this, the school choice, it just makes it worse, in my opinion. And I know that you said project 2025 trying to get rid of, public education. And I know why. I mean, basically indoctrination, right? They want to indoctrinate kids with their narrative.
00:30:02:16 – 00:30:26:19
Speaker 2
And I think I think about my time in New York public schools, really fondly, because the way that at least the school I taught in taught history, I just really agreed with it. And it gave the kids a lot of power over their own opinions. But also given access to facts. Just the facts of what happened.
00:30:26:21 – 00:30:48:15
Speaker 2
And, you know, let’s just let’s say we’re talking about Christopher Columbus. I don’t know, because of Indigenous Peoples Day. That’s something that that is brought up every year. If you give kids the facts, listen, this is what happened. He was sent by Spain, right? To find this land. This is what he did when he was there. This is what happened.
00:30:48:15 – 00:31:12:06
Speaker 2
This is what? How many people died? And you just allow kids to analyze it, and you don’t say, oh, he was a horrible man, you know? He was this. He was that. And you just allow them to come to their own conclusions about what happened. It’s way more powerful for them. They get to analyze patterns throughout history and connect it to other events that happened.
00:31:12:08 – 00:31:36:00
Speaker 2
They get to also see that systems were in place for him to be able to do that. It’s not like he just went off on his own and did this horrible thing, right? Like people were backing him. People are paying him. People were rewarding him for killing people. So. And, yeah, it’s just like, you don’t have to tell kids that they can figure that out on their own.
00:31:36:00 – 00:32:02:22
Speaker 2
Kids are very smart. And so I think, I think some people in politics are very afraid of that, of kids being given access to actual history, what actually happened? And I think because kids are able to come to those conclusions on their own and kind of form their own opinions. Yeah. That’s dangerous to their narrative that they’re that they’re saying.
00:32:03:00 – 00:32:17:13
Speaker 2
And so I think taking away public education and replacing it with whatever whitewashed version of history that they want to spout. Is an answer for them. So.
00:32:17:15 – 00:32:48:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I have no disagreements to what you just shared here. And so I’m kind of trying to get us back on track with, the literacy issue. Thank you for sharing all that, background context to, I appreciate that. I wanted to ask you more about, if you were like, captain of the education system ship.
00:32:48:07 – 00:33:26:16
Speaker 1
Right. What do you think? Are some changes you would make politically, economically, professionally, socially, curriculum wise, just any any tweaks that you could make to the existing structures? What kinds of things would you change to maybe increase the the literacy rate? I guess by the time they get to even fourth grade, what are some things that you would do, to make sure that they are learning the science of reading?
00:33:26:18 – 00:33:38:16
Speaker 1
Write and not just reading for what brings them joy and assuming and guessing. What things are what things are, what are some changes you would make initially?
00:33:38:17 – 00:34:13:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. I’ll focus on literacy because I have to hire other people. For the other, the other things. But, gradient literacy, I think literacy wise. I mean, immediately implement phonological awareness. Phonics instruction, all the, like, foundational literacy skills in kindergarten, for sure. Like just starting there. And following a scope and sequence throughout, it is typically K through second grade typically.
00:34:13:11 – 00:34:34:23
Speaker 2
Of course, again, some students take a little bit longer, which is totally fine. But they’re just should be heavy heavy heavy focus on phonological awareness, which is just manipulating the sounds and words. That’s what phonological awareness is. And it’s like rhyming. You know, connecting the first sound you hear in a word to another first sound that you hear.
00:34:35:00 – 00:34:59:22
Speaker 2
All of these things are just proven to be the foundational skills for reading, because it’s thought, if you can hear, and manipulate individual sounds and words, then you can manipulate divulge individual sounds when you’re reading, and you can even blend those together so you can do it orally, you can do it. And reading, all of those things should be focused on, phonics instruction.
00:35:00:00 – 00:35:30:06
Speaker 2
Kids should still like, just because phonics should be the focus does not mean that they should not be reading. Kids should also be reading. There’s a lot like a lot of people are better about decodable texts, which is just texts that align with skills that they’re reading, that they’re learning and phonics. So, the high frequency words, which is like the and to all of those like words that are just seen in books so often that kids should just learn those as well.
00:35:30:08 – 00:35:57:22
Speaker 2
You know, kids should not only be doing phonics, but reading. I think there’s like a stat that if kids read four, I think it’s like 15 to 30 minutes a day. Hopefully leaning more on the 30 side, that the vocabulary that they’ll learn, it’s just like exponential over the years. So like, not only is reading good for practicing your phonics skills, like you’ll get so much vocabulary out of it.
00:35:57:22 – 00:36:20:17
Speaker 2
You’re working on your comprehension at the same time. But it’s not that those things should be ignored. It’s just that phonics needs to be heavily focused on because you cannot read if you don’t learn all the letters and the sounds and the combinations and phonics rules and you just simply you can’t read if you don’t have those things in place.
00:36:20:19 – 00:36:40:05
Speaker 2
In addition to to phonics, we should be reading to kids daily. Read alouds are so important again for the comprehension piece. I don’t think anyone is suggesting to throw away the fun part of reading that should still be there. It’s kind of like a balance. It’s just right now it’s this and phonics is not in the picture.
00:36:40:06 – 00:37:04:13
Speaker 2
And it should be like this, right? And so then, you know, also I would increase funding for reading specialists. I mean, and they need to be able to do their jobs like they should not be pulled to do a million other things. That is not a job. But of course, that’s how things are. If a teacher calls out sick, who’s going to look after their classroom?
00:37:04:15 – 00:37:29:23
Speaker 2
There aren’t any subs or it’s too late because of. So the reading specialist gets brought in. That’s just usually how it goes now. But I think increasing funding to all the specialists to ensure that teachers have help, the help that they need. I would also decrease the class size. I think I’ve always had like 32, 33 students.
00:37:29:23 – 00:37:43:01
Speaker 2
And it’s just too much. It’s it’s you cannot make meaningful relationships with every single student. And somehow we do it. But like, it’s it’s not healthy. Teachers would be.
00:37:43:01 – 00:37:44:19
Speaker 1
An ideal size.
00:37:44:21 – 00:38:13:12
Speaker 2
1515 is perfect. I think there’s data showing 15 is like the perfect number. For many reasons for grouping, reasons for just connection. Like making connections in the classroom for kids to feel safe, for kids to feel noticed by their teacher. 15 and a lot of private schools get that, of course. Which makes me sad that that can’t happen for public schools.
00:38:13:14 – 00:38:21:01
Speaker 2
But yeah, I hope I answer your question. I feel like I always talk about something that I go off on a tangent because I get passionate about that subject.
00:38:21:03 – 00:38:39:13
Speaker 1
Know. And those are the best. Those are the best. I think that, I’ve noticed that you’re very thorough with your responses. And it gives me a lot to buy into, and ask you follow up questions. So I actually really appreciate that.
00:38:39:15 – 00:38:40:10
Speaker 2
Thank you.
00:38:40:12 – 00:39:07:02
Speaker 1
So, yeah. I don’t think they’re tangent at all. But I’m also a very tangential thinker, so I don’t know. Yeah. Yeah. But, I wanted to ask you a little bit about, So. Okay, so you’re the captain of the ship. You would make, a lot of these changes, like, you know, decreasing the class size and getting, teachers more support.
00:39:07:04 – 00:39:38:06
Speaker 1
And I’m also wondering now, when you left public school, what was the reason you left? Was it because you weren’t getting the support that you needed? Or was it like there was an overwhelming number of students that you couldn’t make meaningful connections with? What do you think was like the the longest straw or the the most foundational, reason that, like to leave?
00:39:38:08 – 00:40:10:14
Speaker 2
They ask this question. I left because of administration. That was it. It was. I loved my kids. I think I was extremely overstimulated every day. But I think, like, had I been more supported by administration, had it been, more, like like my principals, they were not like a leader. They did not lead because people wanted to follow them.
00:40:10:16 – 00:40:34:04
Speaker 2
They led by fear and like, sowing competition into the staff. And I hated that because my first administration in Chicago was amazing. The I think, I mean, I stayed there for five years, but if we still live there, I don’t even know if if she left, maybe I would have stopped teaching. But I just think.
00:40:34:04 – 00:41:04:06
Speaker 2
And then your leadership, I think a lot of people can relate to this. Know if they’re teacher or not. Is so important. And it also doesn’t help. I know a lot of teachers feel the same way when your principal is so far removed from the classroom that they they can’t keep up with the current trends, or they haven’t been educating themselves, or they don’t care enough to know, and they’re giving you advice or feedback that doesn’t match your students needs.
00:41:04:06 – 00:41:31:02
Speaker 2
And you’ll never meet their expectations because you have different expectations. Right. And so I think I just realized that, like, we were never going to be on the same page and, it just was never going to be like a happy, like a place where I could walk in happy, like it was never that. You know? So, I will say that was probably 75% of it.
00:41:31:04 – 00:41:58:22
Speaker 2
The other 25% is there’s way too many tasks being placed on teachers. Every year it grows and we like we literally have no time to do our job. Which is why the system benefits on an unpaid teacher work. It doesn’t benefit. It runs on unpaid teacher work. You’re given 45 minutes to plan five classes, and that’s just to plan them, right?
00:41:58:22 – 00:42:26:06
Speaker 2
That’s not to put in accommodations for kids. That’s not to email parents grade paper, look at papers, grade them and put them in the grading system like I’m missing a million things because there’s just so much to do. And again, when you’re planning for five classes, you’re not just writing down based on like some book, you’re doing it based on your kids.
00:42:26:08 – 00:42:50:04
Speaker 2
So it’s just it’s crazy. So yeah, like 45 minutes was just not enough. And it felt like my system was, like, literally on overdrive. Sure. So I would come home and I would literally just fall right asleep at 4:00 in the afternoon, wake up, eat dinner, and do it all over again. And I was like, this is just not a life I want to live anymore.
00:42:50:06 – 00:43:23:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so I know that, after you left, you started your own, your own business. And you’ve written a couple of workbooks and, you’ve many, many free resources for educators and parents. And so I kind of want to ask you about, you know, like, as you know, like, during the pandemic, I think a lot of things happened.
00:43:23:20 – 00:43:59:17
Speaker 1
I think the micro schooling movement increased. There’s been a lot of homeschooling efforts, unschooling efforts. And so I think the, I guess the patterns and the beliefs and the attitudes have really shifted on how to educate children. And I think that, parents realized like, oh, they wanted to have a little more involvement. And I’m definitely somebody who is considering homeschooling, my daughter when she is of age.
00:43:59:19 – 00:44:29:20
Speaker 1
I’m still kind of working out how that would really work. And so I would love to know, like, I know you’re working with parents. You’re working with kindergarten to eighth graders. And I’m wondering, like, what is that change been for you? Like, leaving a public school system and, like, working with your own business and working individually, maybe even one on one or group instruction with, like, smaller groups.
00:44:29:22 – 00:44:45:09
Speaker 1
I’m wondering how that’s changed your life. And also like, because you are now the captain of your own ship, like, what are some things that you are doing differently, than when you were teaching? Mass.
00:44:45:11 – 00:45:10:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. My life has changed, for the better. Which I hate to say, because, like, I genuinely loved being a teacher, and I loved, like, the classroom community. Like, I loved it. Like, it was devastating when I had to leave. But it really it for me, it has changed for the better. I’m able to, like, focus on my own needs now.
00:45:11:04 – 00:45:42:01
Speaker 2
I’m able to make my own schedule. Which can be tricky because you’re your own boss and you’re like, well, I don’t want to do that. And you’re like, but you have to do that, you know? So, you know, that part is tricky. But I think I was really able to heal, like inside and mentally and emotionally. After I left and for the first time in very long time, I was able to think about what do I want to do, which is not something that I ever thought about as a teacher.
00:45:42:03 – 00:46:08:19
Speaker 2
It was always about everybody else. Which can be good, but to an extreme, it was not good. So yeah, now that I’m working one on one with kids and parents, I mean, I do so much research, which I think surprised me because I think when you go to school and then you get more schooling and you get more schooling to be an expert in something and be certified in something, you’re like, I know everything.
00:46:08:21 – 00:46:27:13
Speaker 2
And it’s just like, not true at all. And so I think because it’s all on me now, I’m like, we, I want to make sure every single thing I’m doing is the best thing that I can be doing. Because if I’m going to tell parents that I can help their kids in this area, then I want to make sure I’m the best person to do that.
00:46:27:15 – 00:46:52:15
Speaker 2
And so I found myself doing a lot more research and keeping up with just even if I’m not sure about something, I’ll. I’ll research that thing. I’ll look at other educators on social media platforms that I see like that I trust, you know, what are they doing about this thing? I think I found community, like, online with other teachers who have left and are doing something similar to me.
00:46:52:17 – 00:47:16:08
Speaker 2
So that’s been really cool. I’ve been networking a lot more with just other professionals. Which is open my mind to it so much. I’m just so impressed by everyone. I’m like, well, you, for example, like, you’re doing this amazing podcast and there’s so many possibilities, that you can do for yourself. So personally, for me, that’s how it’s changed.
00:47:16:10 – 00:47:43:08
Speaker 2
Professionally. I mean, I’m taking the same things I did in the classroom just reading. Right? So I have it’s like I have my own little, like, reading classes. And I have so much stuff in this New York City apartment was just, like, shoving into, like, any storage compartment that is there. But yeah, it’s just like me lugging around on all my, like, manipulatives, letters and visuals.
00:47:43:08 – 00:48:08:18
Speaker 2
Markers. And like all, all my things, lugging it around to different houses in New York. So it’s been really cool. I think I’m able to do more obviously than I did in the classroom. I’m able to make it more engaging, more fun because it’s smaller groups. And then the one on one or is in a class of 30, something fun can be distracting sometimes.
00:48:08:22 – 00:48:18:11
Speaker 2
So, you know, you are more limited, when there’s more kids, you have to not just think about the one. You have to think about how it’s going to influence everyone in there.
00:48:18:12 – 00:48:59:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I totally understand that piece. So, I guess, like, looking back on your journey, and then looking forward at the future of, like, the next generation and how we’re teaching the next generation. What is one thing that you would change about your career trajectory? That you either would want to advise the next generation, against or something that you would suggest them do to do instead.
00:48:59:17 – 00:49:22:07
Speaker 2
I love this. First of all, I love the next generation. I think they’re amazing. I’m a millennial, so talking about Gen Z, I think they’re they just say what they think, and I love it. I think as a millennial, it took me so long to do that, and I’m finally learning it. Me too. Yeah. Just like I love it.
00:49:22:07 – 00:49:33:08
Speaker 2
Like they just say whatever. And it’s, you know, I feel like they do in a tactful way. There’s a way to do it, and I think they do it correctly. I taught Gen A, which is so crazy to say.
00:49:33:10 – 00:49:33:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:49:33:22 – 00:50:01:12
Speaker 2
That most people don’t even know there’s a journey. Yeah. I like the Gen Z gen. Absolutely. All the way back to the beginning. I love them. I don’t know. They were intense. They were. They’re very connected to the internet, which was a challenge. But anyway, I love them. They’re amazing. My advice for them would be you don’t have to pick something right away.
00:50:01:14 – 00:50:24:18
Speaker 2
Like, I like for college. I think maybe our generation, we thought, all right, we pick something. You major in it. You go to college for it. That’s your job forever. And. No, but that’s not true. It doesn’t have to be. It can be. You want to be? But my advice would be you to pick something. That you think you like, but, like, if you change it, it’s okay.
00:50:24:20 – 00:50:49:07
Speaker 2
Like, it’s okay to go back to school or take more courses, or just network and and upskill by yourself to, to move to another career. I think all those things are okay. And to just take care of yourself would be number one. Like, make sure that you’re okay. That’s number one. I think, because I, I didn’t learn that until, again, a lot later in life.
00:50:49:09 – 00:51:10:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. I can kind of relate to that quite a bit. Yeah. And so I feel like that’s really good advice. You don’t have to pick something right away. And you can always upskill. Like, if you decide that you worked on these skills and you’re like, oh, it worked. It didn’t. I’m going to move to something else.
00:51:10:01 – 00:51:35:01
Speaker 1
You know, that’s fine. And so something that, I see about, like the whole system as a whole is that, there is a lot of pressure to major in something that you are going to invest the rest of your life into doing, right? So I feel like that there’s a lot of time, I don’t want to say wasted, but elapsed.
00:51:35:01 – 00:52:01:11
Speaker 1
Right? There’s a lot of time that goes into investing in in that one job. So is there anything that you would change about that, like one final rule that we are trying to get them to decide, to or how could we sort of shorten that time or provide opportunities for, to help them diversify earlier on?
00:52:01:13 – 00:52:21:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I think about this a lot. I don’t know if I have a solution for it. That’s like a really big thing and a big like system that’s in place, in our country. I know how like other countries do, which is interesting. Like, I know, I think I’ve heard people in, like, Europe talk.
00:52:21:21 – 00:52:46:03
Speaker 2
I don’t know specifically what countries, but, they, they kind of go to high schools based on their interest. But I think that would even undo what we’re saying. So I think maybe maybe not that at all. I think I think we need to reevaluate what courses we’re teaching kids in high school. I don’t have the answer for what we should be teaching them.
00:52:46:05 – 00:53:07:02
Speaker 2
I’m not. That is not my job. But I do think things that are more relevant to today’s world. I know there’s a lot of kids should learn more about money, about saving, about taxes. I completely agree. I do think there are some schools that do that. Like I think my school did that but wasn’t very meaningful. Like, kids are like, oh, I didn’t learn that.
00:53:07:05 – 00:53:30:21
Speaker 2
It’s like we did learn that. You probably were talking, or not listening, but I think the issue is, is not meaningful. It wasn’t meaningful the way that we were taught it. I think that’s kind of what people are really saying. And so I think as a country, hopefully one day we reevaluate the courses that we’re expecting kids to learn.
00:53:30:23 – 00:53:52:01
Speaker 2
You hear kids saying, why do I need to know that? Which, sometimes you need to know it. Sometimes I agree. Like I agree. Why do you need to know this? And I think once if we’re able to come together and pick better courses for kids in high school, then I think maybe that would change a little bit.
00:53:52:03 – 00:54:13:09
Speaker 2
Like their idea of a future. Maybe investing more time teaching them about different jobs. I think that for me, when I moved to New York, like literally a few years ago, I was like, there’s so many different jobs I didn’t know that a person could do. Yeah, and it’s not even just because of AI or like something new coming up.
00:54:13:09 – 00:54:40:19
Speaker 2
It was just, no, you don’t have to do a traditional job. You can do all of these things. You know, you’re going to have to invest a lot of time and a lot of work into it. But like this is an also an option for you. So I think maybe some like guidance counselor. Like more like more of that, more guidance for kids on their paths because I think, like, really comes back to what you were saying at the beginning, the messaging that you receive from your parents.
00:54:40:21 – 00:54:57:00
Speaker 2
I think that plays into a lot in how we decide our future careers. I know more so for me. I know some parents really want their kids to be lawyers or doctors, right? But is that really what the kid wants? So I think.
00:54:57:02 – 00:54:57:15
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:54:57:17 – 00:55:19:11
Speaker 2
I think there needs to be a balance of. Of course, adult like direction, guidance and structure, but a little bit more student choice. I think too much student choice cannot be good. I think there needs to be a good balance of it. You know, and so I think I hope that was a good answer. I don’t know.
00:55:19:16 – 00:55:21:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know for sure.
00:55:21:18 – 00:55:23:22
Speaker 2
I definitely not really thought about it.
00:55:24:00 – 00:55:50:16
Speaker 1
No. But I mean, it’s a really big question. And I think like, you know, I’m kind of group thinking with all of my guests. So I think eventually, hopefully, I’ll have asked that question enough that there’s some kind of pattern that emerges. So I think there’s yeah, I do appreciate that perspective quite a bit. I know you’re, working on a free course for parents to, like, build foundational reading skills.
00:55:50:16 – 00:55:54:21
Speaker 1
Their kids at home. I was wondering if you wanted to talk about that a little bit.
00:55:54:23 – 00:56:17:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I’ve been kind of on the social media machine, and, like, I want to make a positive impact because I know my services are not going to be accessible for everyone, and I know that. So I’m like, how can I make things more accessible for everyone? That’s something that’s really, really important to me.
00:56:17:09 – 00:56:43:00
Speaker 2
Is giving back. And just there is a literacy crisis as we talked about it. Kids need to know these skills. So I’m kind of working on. First I need to determine, like, why it’s going to be focused on, I think phonics, because we said it’s so important. And so basically for parents, I want to set them up with why phonics is important.
00:56:43:02 – 00:57:05:17
Speaker 2
The letters and the sounds, which is funny enough. Everyone thinks that they know them, but when you’re learn them, they’re different than you think. I promise there is a few. Even when I relearned them, I was like, what is that? And so, like, making sure parents are saying the right sounds for the alphabet sounds silly, but I promise it’s a thing.
00:57:05:19 – 00:57:31:13
Speaker 2
And then activities that they can do. So once they’re set up, like, why is this important? Okay, I have the skills that I need. Now we can implement it with our kids. In a way that’s fast, easy, can fit into their routine already because I know parents, your parent. I’m sure you’re very busy. You’re literally. You have a little human that you are helping to grow, and you’re guiding them, so and you’re also taking care of yourself.
00:57:31:15 – 00:57:55:00
Speaker 2
So I know there’s not 1,000,000 hours in a day. So this is like a course that I’m trying to make it easy for parents to keep up with, but also giving them access to this information, so that they can help their kids be successful. Like kindergarten, pre-K. So before their kid even really starts to begin their reading journey.
00:57:55:01 – 00:58:29:01
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah, that’s really beautiful. And that’s very generous. And that’s something I would definitely benefit from. So I’ll definitely, please keep me posted. I will really take advantage. And so, I guess, you know, I would love to be, I’d like to be mindful of your time. And so, to wrap up, I’m wondering if you have any last words of wisdom for our micro school or our UN schoolers or homeschoolers, about, the future of education that you’d like to share?
00:58:29:03 – 00:58:55:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think you, as parents, you, you know your child the best, right? You’re going to prepare your child for in the best way that you can. I would say for the future of education, just for me, I, I like to stay on top of, of research and see, you know, truly the best ways to educate your child.
00:58:55:10 – 00:59:26:14
Speaker 2
And I know it’s not easy. But at least you can follow me for some literacy guidance to take some work off of your plate. And I think I think, like we kind of said earlier, I think guidance and structure from adults is so important, but also giving kids a space for their voice as well. But, like, I think the balance of the two is, is really the main kind of theme, from our conversation.
00:59:26:16 – 00:59:34:21
Speaker 2
So, yeah, I think, I think that I hope that was good, good advice.
00:59:34:23 – 00:59:35:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:59:36:00 – 00:59:45:05
Speaker 2
Trust yourself. You know, trust yourself, I think follow your intuition. That’s what I’ve been doing. And it’s it’s been working out for me.
00:59:45:07 – 00:59:54:03
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.
About Taylor
Taylor is a New York City-based reading specialist with over 10 years of classroom teaching experience. She specializes in structured, multi-sensory, individualized literacy interventions. Taylor started TAS Literacy in 2024 to work towards dismantling barriers to literacy through accessible resources and tailored instruction. She provides 1:1 tailored literacy and executive functioning instruction to students in grades K-8. Additionally, she creates literacy resources for parents, students, and teachers, and published 2 workbooks targeted for students in Pre-K and Kindergarten. https://www.instagram.com/tasliteracy/