Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Savanah, a senior health analyst and health education specialist—about her earliest memories of being homeschooled before attending a public school for the last 4 years before college. We talk about what subjects she enjoyed, what subjects she enjoyed less, as well as the challenges of navigating peer relationships in and out of schools. We also discuss what she appreciated about being homeschooled, and the gratitude she has for her mom about the commitment that entailed, and what education related dreams and goals she has for her own children going forward.
Here is our edited conversation.
Auto-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:07 – 00:00:26:19
Rée
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn the ways my peers learned. In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies.
00:00:26:21 – 00:00:53:11
Rée
I design curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems.
00:00:53:13 – 00:01:16:05
Rée
To rethink what schools can be, what it should be. When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers, with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Savannah, a senior health analyst and health education specialist, about her earliest memories of being homeschooled before attending a public school.
00:01:16:10 – 00:01:43:21
Rée
The last four years before college. We talk about what subjects she enjoyed, what subjects she enjoyed less, as well as the challenges of navigating peer relationships in and out of schools. We also discussed what she appreciated about being homeschooled, and the gratitude she has for her parents, about the commitment that that entails and what education related dreams and goals she has for her own children going forward.
00:01:43:23 – 00:01:51:00
Rée
Here is our edited conversation.
00:01:51:02 – 00:02:19:15
Savanah
So I was always very a very good student. I was always maybe not top of the class, but at least like top 5% kind of kind of thing. I was, oh, I was very much like the teacher’s pet. So to back up, further. So, I started in, like a public elementary school. I did k her second, and then I actually was homeschooled from third through eighth grade.
00:02:19:17 – 00:02:42:12
Savanah
And then I went to a public high school. So that was. There was a lot of the messaging, I guess, came from my mom, that she was the primary teacher in that situation. Her idea for I am the oldest of three. I have three younger brothers. But we’re we’re spread pretty far apart in age.
00:02:42:12 – 00:03:00:01
Savanah
My middle brother is five years younger than me, and my youngest brother is eight years younger than me. We were never even in the same school system at the time. Like, I was already in, like halfway through college when my brother was starting high school. So it was very okay. And the other brother was, like, still in elementary school at that point.
00:03:00:03 – 00:03:23:19
Savanah
So it was like we were never even remotely close as far as, like what we were learning in school or anything like that. But my mom is a social worker, and, she primarily would work with adolescents, and she always felt like, well, the middle school age is, like the hardest age, not even necessarily because of education, but because of a lot of the social pressures that go along with that.
00:03:23:21 – 00:03:45:13
Savanah
So she always her intention was always like, well, I’m going to homeschool my kids, at least for middle school. I, I think she just kind of knew me. I’ve always been one on one. You’re probably not getting this at all, but in a group setting, I’m very introverted. I, I’m usually like, I just kind of stand back and I’m not really involved or anything.
00:03:45:13 – 00:04:07:01
Savanah
One on one, I come out of my shell. But, you know, in that big social setting, it’s not so much. And I would I would tend to like, gravitate more towards the teachers than necessarily the other students like I was. I remember being in second grade and, you know, you’d get the like a word for, you know, you stayed on green all day or whatever because they had, little like, color chart thing.
00:04:07:03 – 00:04:25:04
Savanah
Well, you know, if you got enough tickets or whatever, you could have lunch with the teacher, or you could, like, pick a prize from the prize box or whatever. And I would always have lunch with the teacher. Like, I always thought that was like, the greatest prize. So I was back in second grade and second grade. Yeah.
00:04:25:06 – 00:04:49:02
Savanah
This also carried forth once I went to, like, high school and stuff as well. It was, we had a thing where, we had we had our first two periods and then we had an hour long lunch and then two periods. But the hour long lunch was really it was like broken up into two sections where you could spend either the first or the second half in a teacher’s room getting extra help.
00:04:49:04 – 00:05:08:01
Savanah
And the idea was to help students who couldn’t stay after school because they didn’t have transportation or something. To get a little bit of extra assistance from a teacher, or if you were absent, as long as it was like an excuse absence, you could make up a test during that time or so forth. And then have the other half of the time be like time.
00:05:08:06 – 00:05:33:14
Savanah
But I would typically just spend the entire lunch hour in a particular teacher’s room as long as I was, like, close with that teacher friendly enough. And they were just like, yeah, you can just stay in here. Like, that’s what I would end up doing. So it just, you know, it carried for it from second grade onward. But I always had I had trouble as, like, a young kid making good friends.
00:05:33:16 – 00:05:53:21
Savanah
It’s also living in Maryland in that, like DMV, like the DC, Maryland, Virginia area. Lots of military, lots of government. But with that, there’s a lot of fluctuation. So it was it how it seemed like my friends would move every single year because a lot of them were military families. So maintaining those relationships was really hard.
00:05:53:22 – 00:06:14:20
Savanah
So I think my mom saw me struggle and that where I wasn’t struggling academically, but I was struggling socially. So she ended up pulling me into starting homeschooling, pretty early on. So I then was homeschooled from third through eighth. I absolutely loved it. It was like, I don’t know how my mom did it. She’s a saint.
00:06:14:20 – 00:06:38:09
Savanah
Because I was, I was a good kid in the sense. Like, I didn’t really get in trouble. I wasn’t one to like. I would never, like, lie to my parents or anything like that. I don’t know if I was, like, a bad liar. I just, I don’t know. But, I was always like, but I would, I would still, like, argue with my mom quite a bit.
00:06:38:09 – 00:06:56:11
Savanah
And it was I, which I think is like somewhat typical, especially when you’re like home all day in that setting. Yeah. So it was always it would be like a threat of if we were getting into a real argument or, I wasn’t doing whatever I was told to do or whatever. I was like, well, then I’m going to send you to public school.
00:06:56:11 – 00:07:04:03
Savanah
And that shocked me, right? I was like a threat. Not I’m not going to go like, you can’t send me back. I did not like oh.
00:07:04:05 – 00:07:07:03
Rée
Why why did you not want to go?
00:07:07:05 – 00:07:36:16
Savanah
I think it was it was overwhelming. And I really liked the freedom of being homeschooled. Not so much in what I can learn, but the pace I could learn it in. I also which this this is going to make me sound very bad, but take it with a grain of salt. But I think being homeschooled, being the oldest, not having necessarily another comparison.
00:07:36:18 – 00:07:54:01
Savanah
And my parents were very supportive. I, you know, I thought I was the coolest thing, like, I thought I was the smartest in the world. I thought it was great. And I was like, well, I don’t want to be with everybody else because I’m better than them. And of course, this is like from, you know, a middle schooler who’s probably actually feeling very insecure with himself.
00:07:54:01 – 00:08:15:08
Savanah
But this is my thing. So it was, but without having any of those other social comparison or anything, it was like I didn’t want to be with everybody else because I felt special being able to, like, be homeschool and learn at the pace I wanted. And I could get all my work done by noon, and then I could just read a book for the rest of the day.
00:08:15:08 – 00:08:33:10
Savanah
Or more likely, it would be I would be helping with chores or whatever, but I could. I could do it at my own pace. I could learn at my own pace. I could still be challenged, but it didn’t have to be, like too hard or it was just kind of like it was easy in a way. Right.
00:08:33:10 – 00:08:41:18
Savanah
And I felt like by going to school, then I’d have to adhere to someone else’s structure, and I didn’t want to have to do that.
00:08:41:20 – 00:09:15:09
Rée
That’s so interesting. I have a question for you. Yeah. So I wonder. Well, I have two curiosities. One is, what kind of curriculum did you and your mom use for homeschooling? And also, I really am very, I would love to know a little bit more about this comparison piece, because I just want to share. When I was younger, I had a lot of undiagnosed learning disabilities.
00:09:15:12 – 00:09:49:23
Rée
Neurodivergent social anxiety, like so many different things were going on, and nobody knew because I didn’t have language to explain what was happening inside of me. I didn’t have any language or understanding or anything. And so I’m wondering for you, like, do you remember what kinds of specific pressures in those comparisons that felt challenging for you to navigate?
00:09:50:00 – 00:09:52:16
Rée
So, yeah, I just threw two questions at you.
00:09:52:18 – 00:10:15:00
Savanah
Okay. Well, I’ll take the first. I’ll take the curriculum one first so that one’s easier. Yeah. Like think okay. I want to figure it out. But the first one. So, I also I grew up in a very conservative home. So we in third grade, almost, like, kind of ease the transition from going to a public school to, to homeschooling.
00:10:15:00 – 00:10:43:05
Savanah
We did it. It was called a homeschool academy. And it was a it was a classical education. It’s technically a classical Christian, education. So what that looks like is basically Tuesdays and Thursdays, like half day in the morning. I would go to school, and it was usually like it would parents who were kind of they were the teachers, and I was in a classroom, but it was like a classroom of five kids.
00:10:43:07 – 00:11:15:06
Savanah
So and, you know, all of us had uniforms and, but it was basically they would teach it was English, science, Latin and history. So we had yeah, we had those four classes and then we were on our own for math, like math and like arts. I think what we everything that was required, by the like the state board, we had to go like at the end of the year and present to the state board, like, here’s the work that we did.
00:11:15:07 – 00:11:40:12
Savanah
Do you sign off? Okay. Right. So that was definitely so I did that just for third grade. We ended up not sticking. I, I actually, I went back for seventh grade or seventh and eighth. But for that, like, middle portion, my mom took me out and decided just to, like, do it all herself. I think for a couple of different reasons.
00:11:40:12 – 00:12:03:07
Savanah
Some of it was like I was what I was really struggling with the Latin. I’ve just never been a language person. I tried to get into it more as I gotten older. Because I see the value of language so much and I wish it was kind of pushed more in schools. But I like and I think that’s like my own personal gripe.
00:12:03:09 – 00:12:22:02
Savanah
I mean, there’s plenty of them, but like with the American education, so they’re just Americans in general. Like none of us speak a second language. Not like you go anywhere else in the world. And they they all speak English, but we don’t like let’s, let’s get a little bit more closer and, and be able to actually converse with other people.
00:12:22:04 – 00:12:43:15
Savanah
Right. So but I think the Latin, she felt like she’s like, well, I can’t really help you with the Latin. And I think she just she felt at a loss for that part. And then the, English, while it was very, very good, it was very focused on, like, grammar. She felt like they were like, while in third grade, they were teaching more like a six or seventh grade level.
00:12:43:17 – 00:13:15:12
Savanah
And she’s like, I just don’t feel like it’s appropriate for, like, I don’t like I don’t think you’re developed mentally ready to like, kind of do, I guess. And I she had other reasons. But I know that’s like what she kind of shared offhand with me later on. So then when I went back in seventh grade, they actually switched from instead of Latin because all of the like, people who were kind of in the curriculum the whole time, basically, they were graduated out of Latin grade.
00:13:15:14 – 00:13:33:07
Savanah
They took like a, like national Latin exam. And then they did for the seventh and eighth grade class, we did like logic, which was actually kind of cool. It was, it was not something that I feel like it’s typically taught, but I actually really appreciated it. But it was it was essentially like critical thinking and logic.
00:13:33:07 – 00:13:49:14
Savanah
And we would do like the logic math, if you remember, like, oh, we’ll take those people for like you like those. So it was a lot of that of like how and what is a fallacy and what’s a red herring. What that. And I was like, I feel like this is really practical like that, I think I think more kids should be taught that.
00:13:49:19 – 00:14:10:18
Savanah
But that was always my favorite class. I always enjoyed that one. So we would do that. And then I think for, for some of the other curriculum, that was not like dictated by that. My mom was very, very involved with the chart we were at, and there were there was a homeschool group through there. So I think she just conversed with other moms and was like, what curriculum are you using?
00:14:10:18 – 00:14:33:00
Savanah
How did you find that? What did you. So it was kind of like a hodgepodge of things thrown together. It wasn’t like we’re following this method. It was just kind of like, what can we get our hands on? Being like the first kids. So my my middle brother, she homeschooled for kids in seventh grade and then basically was just like, he was a very social butterfly.
00:14:33:00 – 00:14:57:03
Savanah
He was into sports and all of that. And it was just like it was a better fit for him to go to school. This was like, okay, like, I gotta send you to school. And then my youngest brother, she didn’t come for at all. And I think because he is, he’s just a he’s a very creative type, where I was very like by the book academic, like, let me read the textbook, do the tests, that kind of stuff.
00:14:57:05 – 00:15:15:05
Savanah
My middle brother, like I said, so, so. And he was kind of like in school for the social aspect and like, did okay in school was an excellent but like, was able to pass was fine. Whereas like, my youngest brother was the kind who you couldn’t pay him to like, cry at school. He just like didn’t even care, you know, what’s the point?
00:15:15:05 – 00:15:41:09
Savanah
Like, why am I learning? Yeah, I don’t really care. And I think my mom about like that point after three, she’s like, it’s not worth it. You can just go to school. I think you need the structure, because if you were home, you just wouldn’t do anything. Right. So I think that some of it, and I think that also gets into some of that comparison where not that my parents ever, like, purposefully compared.
00:15:41:10 – 00:16:01:19
Savanah
I was never like, you know, but they would compare us in the sense of like, and it was always it was a flattering comparison. It was it was never like, you know, you’re good at this and you’re bad at this or anything like that. But it was it was kind of like how I was kind of just like, well, you know, I excelled a lot more in school, but not as much socially.
00:16:01:19 – 00:16:18:20
Savanah
Whereas my brother excelled more socially and not as much at school. And it’s kind of like this balance of back and forth. And then my youngest brother was, you know, he’s the very creative type. So he like, went completely different than both my other brother. And I was like, he’s in he will do his own music and all.
00:16:18:21 – 00:16:44:07
Savanah
Like he’s much, much more like manual like, like to work with his hands. And it’s just like he’s there like, no, it’s all different and that’s okay. And it was. Yeah. But I think like as a very I think I’m also just a very little person who takes things like pretty black and white. I think growing up it was also like, well, no, if I’m better at school, that just means I’m better.
00:16:44:09 – 00:17:06:00
Savanah
Like and like and that’s not a good way to look at it. And I can say gratefully, my perspectives have shifted, but I think is a very kind of like close minded. And I think that’s also part of part of, like, being homeschooled. Where as much as I, I did not like high school, I did not like going back into the, in the high school and all of that.
00:17:06:00 – 00:17:25:22
Savanah
There were some parts that were good, but I as a whole did not care for it. But I do think that the benefit of it wasn’t an excuse me to kind of the rest of the world and opened up that perspective while being homeschooled, so sheltered that I became, like a lot more competitive with myself. And it was like, well, I want to be different than everybody.
00:17:25:22 – 00:17:27:21
Savanah
And this is how I, I think, like, that’s.
00:17:27:21 – 00:17:42:04
Rée
How we do. You mean? So sorry. Do you mean like, after you transitioned from being homeschooled to when you entered high school or before you entered public school while you were still being homeschooled?
00:17:42:06 – 00:17:54:17
Savanah
Probably like while I was still being homeschooled? I think once I, when I transitioned into into public school, it was like such a shock to my system.
00:17:54:19 – 00:17:55:22
Rée
I guess that.
00:17:55:22 – 00:18:15:16
Savanah
I became a lot more reserved. Finally, towards the end of high school, I was diagnosed with depression. And then in college is more anxiety. And it was just like, even if I talk with my mom afterwards, she’s like, you know, I probably should have. I like, I probably shouldn’t have tried to keep you homeschooled for high school, just like in retrospect.
00:18:15:18 – 00:18:39:09
Savanah
And but I understood her reasoning for sending me. And like I said, I’m so grateful that I went to a public high school because I think it it expose me a lot more to the world. It set me up better for college. There was more that like the high school could offered to me and and like, just my mom could, yeah, but it was I became a lot more reserved in high school.
00:18:39:09 – 00:19:01:17
Savanah
There’s just a lot more. A lot more of those social pressures. It was like that social navigation that I never had to navigate before. In like middle school with being homeschooled. Was it just, you know, when you’re, when you’re in the homeschool bubble, everyone’s a little bit weird and but there’s also only like five of you, so it’s not that big of a deal.
00:19:01:22 – 00:19:23:06
Savanah
Whereas like, then when you go to a public school, you know, there’s, there’s 500 people in your graduating class and there’s all ranges of weird and normal and cool and not cool and different interests and all of that, that it’s just like it’s so overwhelming, that you want to stand out. But it’s really hard to stand out when you’re in.
00:19:23:08 – 00:19:42:06
Savanah
That’s like, whereas when you’re homeschooled, you can stand out by being like the different kid, even just among like, you know, the kids in my neighborhood. Well, I was the only one who’s homeschooled. So I would stand out. And I think that was just like a way, it was like an identity in a way. And I think that that’s where, like a lot of that stemmed from.
00:19:42:08 – 00:20:18:06
Rée
Yeah. No, these are all really. So I don’t think I knew that you were homeschooled. And so I’m kind of just like, wow, that changes a lot of my questions. But, you know, this is so fascinating and I’m so glad that I am making this discovery, like, in real like time, because I have so many questions. Like, when you said that your mother had, you know, her reasoning for, like, sending you to public school after being homeschooled for like five years or something?
00:20:18:08 – 00:20:42:23
Rée
You know, I’m sure she had her reasons. And then also, you made that, comment that in retrospect, she said maybe it would have been better off to homeschool you. Right. And you were talking about how, like, you were diagnosed with depression and then later on anxiety. And for me, like, what is registering in my mind is first of all very relatable.
00:20:43:01 – 00:21:06:13
Rée
But for me, I was not homeschooled. I was I just was always anxious. I was I was very weird, very different. Kind of like your younger brother, like very creative. And very like I’m a tactile learner. Like, I think really a lot better. And sequence things and clarify things when I’m working with my hands. Yeah, I didn’t know that.
00:21:06:13 – 00:21:34:07
Rée
Right. So, you know, I was very different, but it was it was hard. It was very challenging socially for me because I didn’t know exactly how to socialize and I didn’t know how to differentiate myself like you were talking about. Despite being very strange. And so I wonder for you, like, what were some of those.
00:21:34:09 – 00:21:58:15
Rée
Skills. Those socializing skills that you did have to learn or what were some challenges that you remember that you REM, that you remember feeling like this feels new, this feels challenging. This feels, uncomfortable. Like, do you remember any, like, stories or moments or memories or people? Yeah.
00:21:58:17 – 00:22:30:01
Savanah
Yeah. So I definitely it’s it’s kind of funny that you say that, that you also struggle with that because I know, when you sent me some of the questions ahead of time of like, kind of what, what do you hope the next generation doesn’t want or doesn’t do and that kind of stuff. And a lot of it, I think kind of comes back to the communication and the socialization, because that’s one thing I kind of, I don’t know if fear is the right word, right word, but I’m cautious with, you know, with all the social media, with the texting, with how that’s the primary form of communication, where a lot of the learning even
00:22:30:02 – 00:22:54:00
Savanah
is virtual these days, or like instead of it being, you know, getting small groups and discussing, you know, like it’s a lot of, you know, what your iPad and do this and it’s, I get concerned about that. But it’s also really interesting to hear and kind of even just reflecting now back of like, well, those social challenges were still the case when we were in school and we didn’t have all of that extra technology or the technology, which is kind of thing.
00:22:54:05 – 00:23:19:22
Savanah
So it’s it’s still the same problem, maybe some extra things thrown in. And that’s something that like, I, I am concerned for kind of, for the next generation is like how to navigate some of those social expectations. With adding in all of these extra, you know, technology, which can be helpful. But it could also, I think in some ways can be a hindrance as well.
00:23:19:22 – 00:23:44:07
Savanah
But I think, so I grew up in the time of like smartphones were a thing once. I was like in the last year of, of high school. So up until then it was like, you know, you had you’re like, you slip razor phone and it was, you know, I didn’t have texting until like my senior year of high school.
00:23:44:07 – 00:24:05:08
Savanah
Like, that was the thing, you know, making any phone calls was like after 8 p.m. at night because that’s when it was three or I was using the home phone, and having our list of phone numbers and everything, like, taped up on the wall. And that’s how we would, you know, connect with and, but I think making the transition.
00:24:05:08 – 00:24:20:03
Savanah
So I had, I had a very like close like I said, there was so when I was homeschooled, I did that like the homeschool academy or was kind of like the two days a week thing. And I think there were like there were like 6 or 8 people maybe in the class. But there were three of them.
00:24:20:04 – 00:24:42:05
Savanah
There were three girls. So we, and the rest of the rest were boys. So maybe, I guess maybe it was, what, like half and half, but we really, like, gravitated towards each other. But because we had such a unique like, we were our, you know, just a even just being a home for just, like, kind of in and of itself and own, like, identity.
00:24:42:05 – 00:25:10:12
Savanah
So we all kind of gravitated towards each other. And it was a built in friendship, which was really great. But then I think moving into public school, there’s a lot more factors going on and there’s a lot I think the thing that I really struggled to navigate was like how clicks would work. And my school, I feel like was not very it wasn’t like Mean girls of, you know, you’re not allowed in this group.
00:25:10:14 – 00:25:36:01
Savanah
But there were definitely social groups. And breaking into a social group, really, really challenging. And I and like finding a common identity with people. Especially those who grew up from K through 12 or even even six through 12, like they all went to middle school together. And then kind of coming in as the new kid was.
00:25:36:03 – 00:25:37:07
Rée
Yeah.
00:25:37:09 – 00:26:09:13
Savanah
I might have known them from like summers at the pool, but not not in a school setting. And it’s almost you’re like summer. So there’s like a different person than your school. So, so I think that was really, really hard to navigate. And just even I think expectations from different families, like familial expectations, I think, also shapes relationships with, my, like my friendships and stuff.
00:26:09:15 – 00:26:27:23
Savanah
And I think, again, because when you’re homeschooled, it’s a very like all of the parents are the same. There obviously are very involved. They’re choosing to keep your home with you and provide the education themselves. Whereas in a public school it ranges so dramatically where you do have the really involved parents, then you have like the completely hands off parents.
00:26:27:23 – 00:27:06:01
Savanah
And we also had we had quite a diverse, both like socio economically and cultural, school. So just identifying in that way as well of what those expectations were, because, you know, we had we had a decent size like Indian community and those have their own social pressures. And then we had, we also have had, quite a few of like the free and reduced lunch community and like, they have their own pressures and like, figuring out where you fit in somewhere in the mix was it’s very isolating.
00:27:06:03 – 00:27:31:01
Savanah
And then you also had the like I had the friends who they I mean, I had obviously, I’m being homeschooled. I had a very sheltered childhood and very involved parent where it was like, I, I think I had a lot like a decent amount of freedom. But then I would see some of my friends where it’s just like, oh yeah, my parents just let me do whatever, you know, looking back and even like talking with my husband.
00:27:31:01 – 00:27:57:01
Savanah
In our own different experiences growing up, he’s like, your parents were a bit of like, helicopter parents, weren’t they? And like, I think there’s even that of what those freedom look like. You know, my friends could they could all go see, you know, a PG 13 movie, but I wasn’t allowed to go see it. So it was just like having those restrictions was really hard to navigate.
00:27:57:03 – 00:28:23:13
Savanah
And then and, like, you get where it’s just like the. So what is my social identity? I, I danced growing up. I did classical ballet, which is also like, that’s not a team sport. And then I swam in the summer again, not like you’re on a swim team, but it’s all individual. So I never had that, like, team mentality or even just, like, kind of working with others in that way.
00:28:23:13 – 00:28:54:21
Savanah
It was always just a very individual thing. So coming into school to like public school, how to how to figure that out, I remember I think I also had very kind of rose colored glasses on of what I expected high school to be, you know, like watching high school movies where it’s like, you know, it’s it all ends up happy and it’s all goofy.
00:28:54:23 – 00:29:20:19
Savanah
And then actually being in a was very different. And I think I felt like kind of let down. It wasn’t as like, clearly defined, as it is in like the movies, there was a lot more fluidity of like, what those what the friendships look like. What what did the relationships with teachers look like? How to navigate the different classes?
00:29:20:21 – 00:29:45:01
Savanah
You know, and then even just like I was in, I was in predominantly like AP or honors classes, but then we all had to take like our general studies classes and being put in those classes of like even that was like hard to navigate sometimes because it was all of the distractions constantly. And I hated that was like one of the reasons I did not like like the public school.
00:29:45:05 – 00:30:03:08
Savanah
I was like, okay, it probably sounds bad, but being put in some of like the gen ed classes because they were so there, it was just they were distracting. It was it was chaos. And like looking back, I just feel so bad for the for the teachers because they weren’t actually able to teach. It was just crowd control.
00:30:03:10 – 00:30:25:05
Savanah
And I was just like I felt like I was just wasting my time completely in that. Whereas like, then, you know, I was in the AP honors classes and like, I felt like I could actually learn and I could actually contribute and do something. So that was that was really hard to navigate. And I just like I remember coming home from school one day and just telling my dad of, like, I didn’t realize that people were so dumb.
00:30:25:06 – 00:30:57:10
Savanah
And again, it was like I thought it was a lot better that I. Went looking back, I realized that there’s a lot of other factors at play there. And, you know, not only is there just like a range, but there’s also like I was really fortunate to have involved parents, which also pushed me a lot harder, being a little bit more like internally motivated or even having the homeschool experience of being able to choose a little bit more of what I wanted out of my curriculum, like I was able to advance in certain areas.
00:30:57:10 – 00:31:19:19
Savanah
I mean, then there was other areas that I wasn’t able to advance too much in. And I, you know, those are other drawbacks where it’s like kind of wish that we had spent more time on math and science, but I as like, that wasn’t like my mom, like she was she was okay at I mean, she was a to be able to teach me to get to, you know, through like geometry or so.
00:31:19:19 – 00:31:46:12
Savanah
But it was just like, well, okay, now you’re on. No, I’m not teaching you calculus or anything. Right. So I think navigating like what that looked like was really hard, and I, I don’t think I realize as well even some of, like, socioeconomic challenges that were outside of my little bubble, that then contributed to, like, some of some of student successes or failures.
00:31:46:14 – 00:32:15:09
Savanah
And then I also wish that, like, I had a little bit more thick, like thicker skin going into going into high school because kids are mean so and they would, you know, they would say comments. And I think like had I more almost grown up with that a little bit more then I could have just like let it roll off my back a little bit and not to say like they were right and saying anything that they would say, but I could just be like, okay, well, you’re just kind of being a jerk, so whatever.
00:32:15:11 – 00:32:48:14
Savanah
But instead I took it to heart and like, really, you know, it really, it would hurt me. And, I think that was like that was hard to navigate. And whereas, like, you know, then I had other friends who, you know, grew up with all that and like, they would have some witty retort back, but I like, I feel like I almost I grew up in such a loving home, which is so fortunate that also like, well, that I didn’t know what actual like any kind of adverse event was, that it was then how do I deal with an adverse event?
00:32:48:14 – 00:32:52:02
Savanah
How do I deal with that? That stress?
00:32:52:04 – 00:33:15:00
Rée
Yeah. So now I’m really kind of curious, like, you know, what were those defenses that you developed to actually maybe, once you once you saw, like, you know, you had that questioning of where do I belong? How do I wedge myself in? How does this relationship look like? How does you know? How am I supposed to communicate with this type of person?
00:33:15:00 – 00:33:39:16
Rée
How am I supposed to understand where this person is coming from? You, like you were doing all this questioning and I’m wondering what were the answers that sort of either that you make shifted and, you know, like or what were some of those defenses that you developed like, or strategies that you use to, like, survive, during high school?
00:33:39:18 – 00:33:41:00
Rée
Do you know.
00:33:41:02 – 00:34:07:01
Savanah
So I see this like half jokingly, some of it is like depression that was not not necessarily like a coping mechanism, but I was almost I think one of the reasons why it took a long time for it to be diagnosed is because the way it manifested for me was I’d go further and deeper into my school, like into my education.
00:34:07:01 – 00:34:29:21
Savanah
So when I was at my worst mentally is when I was doing my best academically. And it’s because I socially isolated. I wouldn’t go out with friends. I, you know, I would go to dance with them. I would like, I would just come back and do homework all night and I wouldn’t reach out to friends. So I was just like, I was sad.
00:34:29:21 – 00:34:48:13
Savanah
So I just put all of my effort into school. So that’s when I was like, that’s when I got straight A’s and did really good on the AP tests. And stuff, but I was really struggling mentally. So that’s how, like I say, because I think that’s like that’s not typical of like a teenager who’s depressed. I think most kids are like wanting to sleep all day.
00:34:48:13 – 00:35:24:08
Savanah
I’m not going to do it where it was like, I was almost like this weird reverse thing of like, I, I also I more like, I guess my like senior year ish. Some like it wasn’t diagnosed by any means and it never got severe enough to be diagnosed, but I was like a lot more like body image issues and body conscious of, like monitoring my food intake and monitoring like how much I exercise and like all of that kind of stuff.
00:35:24:10 – 00:36:03:07
Savanah
So it was it was it was depression in the sense of like I was not okay mentally. Very like suicidal ideation kind of thing. Never, like, never wanted to just because I was lonely, I was sad. But how it presented was very different than I think. Typical. But that’s how I dealt with it. And I don’t think it got better, really, even until, like, towards the end of college or even after college, when I started my masters, is when I actually was able to figure out healthy ways coping or dealing or getting by.
00:36:03:09 – 00:36:39:01
Savanah
And I think and this is like a little bit of a tangent here. So I apologize. But I think, like, I have very conflicting feelings sometimes with at least the American school system right now. You know, I while I appreciate all of the extra effort on and focus on, like mental challenges, whether, ADHD or depression or anxiety or, and or even like the, the range of autism and all of that, like those neurodivergent.
00:36:39:03 – 00:36:46:05
Savanah
I think it needs to be addressed. But at the same time, I almost feel like.
00:36:46:07 – 00:37:09:21
Savanah
I feel like there’s so much focus on it that now that’s becoming kids identity of, well, I have this disease, and then they don’t learn some of maybe the coping mechanism of how do you get out of it without it being a crutch and not saying that I did it right by any means. I’m not saying like all the kids just be like me, because that’s also not appropriate.
00:37:09:23 – 00:37:29:04
Savanah
But I think learning how like in this time of your life, because it’s not an easy time, you’re struggling with your identity. You also have these things of like, you know, you’re trying to figure out where to go to college if that’s what you want to do, if you want to go that route, or what do you want to be when you grow up?
00:37:29:04 – 00:37:46:04
Savanah
And I hated that question in in high school because I had no idea. And I felt like I was the only one who had no idea what I wanted to be. Because, like, I, you know, I feel like I would talk to friends and they would all like, this is what I want to be. What I grow up or what this is what I want to study in college.
00:37:46:04 – 00:38:12:18
Savanah
And whether it was that was being fed to them by their parents or whether that’s truly what they wanted to do it, I mean, it varied, but I felt very like I have no idea what I want to do. So I just got very locked in that way. But I think some of those challenges of feeling lost or feeling lonely or isolated are more or less normal, like the the people that I speak to now, to, to some extremes, they’re not normal.
00:38:12:18 – 00:38:35:22
Savanah
Like when it becomes to be, you know, actually challenging to yourself or challenging to see it in, in whatever. Then then that’s not normal. Like that’s not okay. That needs to be addressed. But just the like the test anxiety, it’s a wolf. That’s just test anxiety. It doesn’t mean that you’re bad at taking tests. It doesn’t mean that like I have anxiety, so I’m just never going to be good at it.
00:38:35:22 – 00:38:52:10
Savanah
No, it just means like this is something that you have to learn how to overcome. How can we figure that out? How do you learn how to study? How do you learn how to do though? Like how can you overcome it? How do you make the connections with your teachers? How do you how do you ask the right questions?
00:38:52:12 – 00:39:15:06
Savanah
So I think that that so I apologize, like kind of going off on like the mental health route. But I think that like that’s, that can be a part of it. I almost feel like there’s, there’s like an overcorrection in some ways of, well, this is the issue that you have, but now you don’t because you have this diagnosis, you then you don’t have to actually overcome it.
00:39:15:07 – 00:39:35:06
Savanah
Where you’re I think we’re forgetting some of that like resilience aspect of like just because you have that doesn’t mean that up to your identity or that you then will fail because you have it and it’s just like, well, this is just a matter of fact. Like there’s there are ways around it and there’s ways to grow from it and there’s ways to get by it.
00:39:35:06 – 00:39:43:02
Savanah
And I feel like half of us is still figuring out how to do that. But there are ways, some of it I figured out.
00:39:43:04 – 00:40:11:17
Rée
But, you know, I don’t think this is a tangent at all. And I think it well, what I want to argue is that you think it’s like really an extension of this main trunk that I think we’re building because, you know, you, you studied biology and you got your masters in public health. Yeah. And so I feel like, you know, this being, I think this is a very big concern, at least for the next generation.
00:40:11:18 – 00:40:43:13
Rée
I didn’t read this book yet, but, I listened to several conversations by the author, Jonathan Haidt, and he wrote a book called, The Anxious Generation. And he kind of talks about how social media, well, he first talks about, like, how, men’s brains and women’s brains are wired differently. And so women’s brains are wired for social connection.
00:40:43:13 – 00:41:11:06
Rée
And that’s why, you know, it’s more important to us how we present ourselves socially within society. And so when people are talking about us or when we’re not relating properly in this social dynamics of our communities, it’s more damaging. And it makes us, you know, turn away from social connection because we don’t feel valued, we don’t feel like we’re part of society.
00:41:11:06 – 00:41:36:06
Rée
And so he talks about how that is why social media is so much more damaging to young women. And it’s because, you know, they’re constantly comparing themselves. And you mentioned this to even when you briefly talked about like, I don’t think you use the word eating disorder, but I know I have one. I don’t kind of look like the person who’s eating disorder, which is why it’s like embarrassing to admit.
00:41:36:08 – 00:42:10:05
Savanah
That I have. Not at all. But I don’t think anyone necessarily looks like it. Right. It can come in all clearly sizes. And I don’t mean to say that in like a very cliche pattern, I’m sure, but I but I think it’s true. I think it really does. It comes in all all shapes and sizes and and how it manifests is different to whether it’s just like your obsession with counting calories or it’s, you know, for like, yeah, like an anorexia or or the over exercise or like it, it’s sense so differently.
00:42:10:06 – 00:42:11:14
Savanah
So yeah, I get it.
00:42:11:18 – 00:42:34:03
Rée
Exactly. Yeah. And then you know how you were talking about how like, you used academics. I think you, you use you said it in such a beautiful way that I can’t recapture what you said, you know, like what? You were struggling so bad. So, so much with your mental health, but that’s when you were really excelling academically, right?
00:42:34:03 – 00:43:00:02
Rée
And so, you know, when we’re overcompensating or we’re doing other things and not doing the social connection, like you mentioned, like hanging out with friends, but we’re like, really trying to change ourselves because we don’t think we’re good enough or whatever it is. It’s really, really damaging. And it can lead to depression and anxiety and all this other things.
00:43:00:04 – 00:43:28:05
Rée
Then you also mentioned this brilliant piece about like how, you know, there is a lot of neurodivergent being diagnosed and ADHD and things like that. But you’re right. Like, it’s great that people are being diagnosed and finally being seen for maybe these things that have gone under the radar for so long. But you’re right, it’s not a place where you allow it to become your identity, you know?
00:43:28:05 – 00:43:53:01
Rée
And, my therapist actually does not like labels for that reason. And she just says, here are some of the things that we need to work on. And she doesn’t say, oh, you have ADHD or you have autism. Like, I mean, we talk a lot about these things, but, they’re really, like, departure points to help you figure out how do you overcome and come up with better strategies.
00:43:53:01 – 00:43:53:11
Rée
Right.
00:43:53:11 – 00:44:16:14
Savanah
I love that how it’s like a departure point. That’s such a good way of phrasing it, because I think it’s I think a lot of people, especially adolescent, or even like even into, into early college, I think it’s I don’t think it’s as much I think once you get kind of past, I think you start to get into like imposter syndrome and a little bit different.
00:44:16:16 – 00:45:01:13
Savanah
But I think like college and definitely high school, certainly middle school is you’re so lost looking for an identity that then if a, if a doctor or a person of, of authority gives you some sort of label, then then you grasp on to that as an identity. And I know that there have been some studies now, I think I know some of the specific studies are even around like transgender, studies where it’s like in a group of friends, if one friend, especially with females, gets diagnosed as transgender, the other, like the expansion group of friends, it’s like 50% adult.
00:45:01:13 – 00:45:28:17
Savanah
Put me on that. I have to, like, actually look it up. But I know it’s, like significantly higher than another person or more of that group of friends will also be diagnosed as transgender. And I think it’s because of of the identity and I, I know and I only know like they’ve done studies on that. I, I need to look up the actual numbers so I don’t quote me on those exact claims.
00:45:28:19 – 00:45:55:03
Savanah
But I think that’s also the case with like, anxiety and depression of, if you have kind of a friend or yourself gets diagnosed with that, just even in our own human idea of wanting to be empathetic, of wanting to identify with the other person, it can easily, especially in that, you know, high school mindset, you start to get transformed like, well, what if I also have anxiety?
00:45:55:03 – 00:46:18:15
Savanah
What if I also have depression? Just almost as a way to then identify with your friend? And I think that that’s also that can play a role where it’s like it’s coming almost from a sense, like from a source of empathy with your with that other person and trying to find that sense of identity. But kind of going back to the departure point, I think if it gets phrased more like that of like, this is just a starting point.
00:46:18:15 – 00:46:47:12
Savanah
So that way not so much that this is going to be your diagnosis, but that this is with with this idea. It gives us a list of here’s some good things that you can try to help you move forward from here. And kind of like, okay, if you’re starting from point A, then here’s all of the like all the mechanisms that help with point A, but if you’re starting from point B, here’s all of the mechanisms that help with point B.
00:46:47:14 – 00:47:11:05
Savanah
And I think that’s such a beautiful way of phrasing it because it it really focuses on on the what’s next. And I know, and I apologize, I’m kind of jumping ahead a little bit, but I one of the questions, that you had, you would ask was like, you know what, if you if I had any teachers or professors or anyone who really shaped some of my career, I might forward.
00:47:11:05 – 00:47:33:01
Savanah
So, when I was in college, I desperately wanted to become a physician. So that’s why I did. That’s why I did science. I did cell biology as my undergrad, with the intention of going to med school. I, I applied to med school, and I didn’t get it, but really, that was a blessing in disguise.
00:47:33:03 – 00:48:03:21
Savanah
Because around that time was also when I had met my husband and he was in the military. So we would often end up moving anyways, you know, like, I could be very stable in one place while going to med school. And that’s also when I started exploring public health, and I got into public health and, I actually I started, one school, because it was, I did it, I did an online, master master’s of public health.
00:48:03:23 – 00:48:30:14
Savanah
And I started out on the cheapest and then very quickly found out that that was not the right fit for me. And it was it was just like, I thought the classes were too big. I couldn’t make that connection. And I couldn’t connect with the teachers or anything. And I had actually, when applying to these programs, there was another program that I had applied for, ended up not getting in, but like, followed up with the response like that.
00:48:30:15 – 00:48:54:18
Savanah
Hey, you. Sorry we didn’t accept you. Follow it up with the person who email was like, hey, I just wanted to get any feedback to know, like why I wasn’t accepted the program, how I could improve my application, whatever. And they had actually responded. And I was like, you know what? Well, I don’t think you’re the fit for this program, but I think you’re a better fit for the social behavioral, science program.
00:48:54:20 – 00:49:20:10
Savanah
Do you want me to go ahead and forward your application and see if it gets accepted to that next step of concentration? Like. Sure. That sounds great. What how it ended up happening was I ended up transferring to that school, because I did one semester at the first school, didn’t care for it, transferred that one, and that for that particular professor who responded that to me was a huge player and kind of my future public health career.
00:49:20:12 – 00:49:41:21
Savanah
That’s during during my, my public health concentration. I focus a lot on aces and for adverse childhood events because I thought it was fascinating. But one of the things that this particular professor really pushed was instead of coming at it from a deficit point of view of of aces, how do we fix that? Let’s approach it from a resilient point of view.
00:49:42:00 – 00:50:07:09
Savanah
Let’s look at the resilience factors. Let’s look at what factors are in place that actually make people to see you’d, rather than what makes people fail and how they can balance each other out. And I think by approaching going like going back again to like the departure idea of giving like, here’s all these, these techniques to help you move on from here.
00:50:07:09 – 00:50:24:18
Savanah
It’s kind of like identifying those resilience factors. What are those resilience factors instead of just here’s the diagnosis. Well now what like can you prevent the diagnosis. We’ll have to type a brain chemistry. So you can’t really prevent the diagnosis. So let’s focus on like how do we move on from it. How do we actually make it better.
00:50:24:18 – 00:50:52:06
Savanah
What’s our next step and how do we can we throw all the resilience factors we have at it? Can we even throw all of that ahead of time. So then it like mitigates any of those initial like Aces or diagnoses or whatever that initial cause wave. So that was you and a huge player. And I think that’s always stuck with me of trying to figure out how to come at it from like a strength based approach approach and having that resilience factor thrown in.
00:50:52:06 – 00:50:56:01
Savanah
There is that strength based approach.
00:50:56:03 – 00:51:24:19
Rée
Yeah. No, I think that’s incredible. I think, you know, strength based is really like the theme of this podcast. And, you know, building on a child’s strengths and their talents and their abilities and their natural inclinations. And, you know, what are their own intrinsic motivation? Like, what is it that’s going to incentivize them from the inside out?
00:51:24:21 – 00:51:53:15
Rée
And so I love that story, and I love that this professor was the person who, you know, set you off on your path. And, I kind of want to sort of like, you know, now sort of package our conversation and think about, you know, all of this sort of, data points. I don’t know if there’s a better word for that, but, you know, all of these things that you shared about your education journey.
00:51:53:17 – 00:52:44:15
Rée
And if we look at, like, your journey from kind of socializing with your teachers in second grade and then not really socializing with a huge community between third and eighth and then being thrown into a huge community and like having you, like, sink or swim and come up with you, you know, like really, I guess Barry, yourself in academics, I’m just kind of wondering, what do you wish you had learned or what kinds of supports do you wish you had had, that you didn’t get in helping you become more social?
00:52:44:17 – 00:53:03:16
Rée
Or find your niche or find your community? When you were younger and when you were, like, struggling through compulsory education, would there be anything that you would have wanted? I think.
00:53:03:18 – 00:53:28:22
Savanah
Like I said, I had very I had very involved parents, which I’m grateful for because I also I’m very close with my parents now. I almost wish that they hadn’t been as involved, just to almost give me more of a push to then rely on trying to find, you know, friends my own age or something, rather than kind of like be so close with my family.
00:53:29:02 – 00:53:51:07
Savanah
Now, with that said, in adulthood, I’m so grateful for that because I also see families that were not that way. And my mom, it really is kind of one of my closest friends now. Now that we’re like, we’re both adults and like, I have my daughter and it’s that’s very social. So I it’s hard to say, like how I would change it.
00:53:51:07 – 00:54:14:04
Savanah
I totally get rid of that. So I don’t want that. But I in some ways I do wish like they were a little bit more hands off and allowed me to, to get hurt almost, in figuring out some of these friendships instead of just like, this is a really good person, you should be friends with them. And like, pushing where it’s like, I think that’s just the normal parent inclination of they want to set you up for success.
00:54:14:04 – 00:54:53:03
Savanah
And a lot of times, as much as we don’t want to admit it, they do know kind of what is best for you. To some extent, I mean, like just from their own learning. But I think allowing allowing me to fail a little bit more in, in that social regard. Oh, as painful as it would have been, because that’s not saying like I definitely got hurt quite a bit there are many a times it was like, you know, I was in tears coming home from school or whatever, like not saying that like it was all rosy, but, but instead of instead of them jumping in to be like, well, how can we fix it
00:54:53:05 – 00:55:25:15
Savanah
being more like, well, how do you fix it? Or do you just want to tell me what’s going on? I’m this, I’m here for you, but I’m going to sit back and let you figure out how to how to handle that. Like, you know, after like there were, like, rumors going around in school. I was like, but instead of, like, I don’t want you to jump in and and get a teacher involved and like, well, you think it’s like for me, for my own kind of protection or whatever in some sense, I think I needed to fight my own battles a little bit more.
00:55:25:17 – 00:56:05:08
Savanah
I think. I think, and I understand I totally understand why they did this because I, I gravitated I gravitated more to like, ballet and dance and stuff like that, which was very individual. But I wish that they had encouraged me more to break out and do something maybe a little bit more team oriented, like had me stick with soccer rather than like the one time I did it when I was for the season, just really pushed me a little bit more because I think that was also I felt strongest in high school, that it was really like everyone who was on a team kind of had this built in friend group, and I
00:56:05:08 – 00:56:43:06
Savanah
wasn’t on a team, and I think that was really challenging. So even just having some way to like, identify in that sense, more like I wish that there, there were. I like there were definitely clubs that I wanted to join, but I think I was always nervous to join them. Because I just, I, I think I always felt like an outsider, and I think, I wish that I had more confidence to actually just go up and do it and just see how it work and stick with it instead of being like, I’m just going to go read my book because I was quite a bookworm girl, like I was the person who, like,
00:56:43:10 – 00:57:03:09
Savanah
we would go to a baseball game and I would bring like, you would bring a book, which like, I don’t I’m also not a fan of baseball. Like it was that kind of like, you know, going out in public. I would just kind of go internal, and I almost wish, like, as much as I would have, like, fought my parents on it, it would have been like, oh, you’re not going to bring your book.
00:57:03:09 – 00:57:16:17
Savanah
You’re going to be social, like you’re you’re going to learn how to talk to people. You’re going to learn how to how to how to deal with this, not just say that that would help at all with any of like, kind of the backstabbing that is teenage girls.
00:57:16:19 – 00:57:18:06
Rée
Oh, yeah.
00:57:18:07 – 00:57:57:18
Savanah
Because I don’t think that’s possible to prepare for by acting like it’s just being exposed to it. But I think, like, again, I think that it goes back to, like, because I, I would tell my parents just about any, anything and everything. So they were well aware of all the backstabbing that was going on. But and I don’t think they did this, but instead of offering advice, just be more of like, just listen and wait until maybe I ask for advice instead of hearing it kind of from like my social worker mom who’s like, well, yeah, you know, you’re just trying to diagnose the you’re just trying to like, fit.
00:57:57:18 – 00:58:03:19
Savanah
And it’s like, no, like she’s just she’s just being a mom. But you know, as a teenager looking at her from that school.
00:58:03:21 – 00:58:04:10
Rée
Year.
00:58:04:14 – 00:58:44:06
Savanah
I think was, is is a little bit more challenging because that’s I wish I think having I think a lot of it, I felt just very lonely like I didn’t have a good solid friendship. And I think that was that was a really big challenge. And I don’t know, I’m not totally sure where that stemmed from. I definitely had like, I have one, I had like one childhood friend who was really great, but she was also she was very outgoing in The Social Butterfly and had her own group of friends.
00:58:44:08 – 00:59:19:09
Savanah
And I was just never really a part of that group of friends cuz, like, she and I were really, really close. She’s actually she’s the goddaughter or godmother of my daughter, now. So we’re still very much in contact. But I think, like, even having, like, if I, if I were to give a speech to like, a, a high school class or something, I would or middle school class would be like, you know, you outgoing people grab an identify one of those really introverted kids and take them under your wing and just like, bring them along and invite them to things.
00:59:19:09 – 00:59:40:22
Savanah
And like just even if they keep saying no, just at least extend the invitation out there because eventually it’ll stick. And I wish that someone had done that for me and kind of dragged me along and be like, nope, you’re just going to get included in this group. Like you’re just that’s just how it’s going to happen. And so at least like there is someone looking out for you kind of saying.
00:59:41:00 – 01:00:08:23
Rée
Yeah, no, that’s important. I think like the quality of your friendships. I think that’s even like the single most, predictor of longevity and health is really the quality of your friendships, your social connections. So I think that that’s really solid advice. And so, like for the final question, I would love to ask you because you have a daughter.
01:00:09:01 – 01:00:22:00
Rée
What is going to be your educational philosophy towards raising your daughter? So.
01:00:22:01 – 01:00:44:21
Savanah
And this is like, you know, coming with, you know, my speaking from my own experience because I don’t want her to throw herself into her work at the expense of everything else. And I know this is it’s kind of funny because it’s something where, like, my husband and I very differ in this because he’s very like, she must get straight A’s, she must do this, she must do this.
01:00:44:21 – 01:01:07:03
Savanah
And I’m like, I just want her to be happy. I just want her. I’m like, no, I don’t want her to be slacking. And I don’t want her to just like being CS and DS and barely getting through, or she is that I want to figure out why that is. Is it the learning style? Do we need to look into a different school that maybe will cater to her learning style better, or does what she is learning?
01:01:07:03 – 01:01:24:13
Savanah
Do we have to figure out her into like, I don’t want to coddle her. I think, like you’re not going to get coddled in life. You’re you do have to don’t figure out how to do things even when you don’t want to. But like, you know, you’re you’re still going to have to learn math. You’re still going to have to learn how to write a paper that’s just life.
01:01:24:15 – 01:01:46:10
Savanah
But maybe there’s another avenue of doing it. But I think that’s my biggest think, worry, fear, concern for us. I just I don’t want her to feel like she has all of the pressure. She must get straight A’s, but at the expense of everything else. I want it to be a balance. I really want to help encourage her to find a balance of what’s your passion?
01:01:46:12 – 01:02:09:10
Savanah
How do you also make sure that you have these social connections, you know, stay involved with sports or extracurriculars, or whether it’s a club, whatever, have that in addition to your education? Because I think if you only have your education, it’s not going to serve you well. It’s not going to be enough for you. You’re not going to feel fulfilled.
01:02:09:12 – 01:02:47:16
Savanah
And while it looks great on paper while you’re applying to colleges, it’s not really going to do you any good once you get past that, you know? And I think that that’s like my philosophy of just as long as she’s happy and she’s not feeling like she’s not totally struggling, then, then I’m okay with that. Like even to see if she gets B’s in there, even like, and, and I will say, my parents always told me they’re like, as long as you are actually putting in the effort, then you’re good.
01:02:47:16 – 01:03:08:15
Savanah
They’re like, we don’t accept less than like really than less than a B, but they’re like, if you get a C. But we could tell that you were working your butt off to earn that C, like that’s okay. But like we do expect kind of A’s and B’s where we and like my and my mom would always say what’s like breaks my heart looking back at it like, you know, if I would ask her like, well, what do you want for your birthday?
01:03:08:15 – 01:03:43:06
Savanah
What do you want for like, whatever. Look, I just want you to be happy and, like, it just breaks my heart now. Like, thinking of my daughter saying, just anyway. But I think that’s where it a lot like, stems from of just. I want her. I want her to be confident in herself, to know, to know what her strengths are and and to capitalize on that, whether it’s in an educational field with like, both, you know, me and my husband, her dad are very like, academic.
01:03:43:06 – 01:04:14:13
Savanah
And we like to we like to pursue academics. But if she’s not inclined that way, still accepting her that that’s okay. She doesn’t have to be inclined that way. She needs to do something because, yeah, you see, I have, some sort of path in life. But if she’s if she’s happy and has that secure friend group who’s going to help her grow and challenge her in life and be successful in her own right, then I’m okay with that.
01:04:14:13 – 01:04:37:09
Savanah
And I think that that’s the philosophy that I’m trying to take. Now. She’s she just turned to me. So I say this all with a grain of salt because, you know, I think everyone thinks that their toddler is absolutely brilliant when they’re, you know, I can understand the true heart of what she’s saying, but I think she’s.
01:04:37:11 – 01:05:06:15
Savanah
Good. That’s my thought right now. So and I think we’ve definitely been, like, playing around with, my husband works he works in finance mostly securing, funding for charter schools. Wow. So he’s actually he’s really involved with all of that. So he’s, over here on the Eastern Shore. There’s not any charter school, so he’s trying to, like, get in it, like we’re going to get a charter school and we’re going to get it going just because I think it it just gives another option.
01:05:06:20 – 01:05:40:09
Savanah
And both like most of most like, no, we’re going to do we’re going to do public schools. And meanwhile both of our, our sets of parents like you really should send to private school. You should really say I’m, I’m like, well, I, I don’t know. Our taxes are paying for the public school. The public school isn’t bad. I but I think having the options of like, oh that how to set them up for success and that early success and that having some of the structure, but also a place where they can succeed, where they’re not going to have all these distractions, but also having being able to establish good relationships with teachers and all
01:05:40:09 – 01:06:08:19
Savanah
of that, like, or just cater to what kind of student they are, like having these options. Is it it can be a pain in like I feel and and it’s probably world wide. But I do feel like at least at least with the idea in the US with some of the school choice, it’s nice to have those options, because then you can cater to the child a little bit more than just like, here’s just one blanket way of how we do education.
01:06:08:19 – 01:06:29:02
Savanah
And that’s it. Where I think if you can, if you can cater at least a little bit to the child and not all of the teachers, I mean, a lot of it, could often be on the parents of how involved you want to be in your child’s education, but I think that helps set them up for success better because, like you said, where you’re like a tactile learner, that’s how you learn better.
01:06:29:02 – 01:06:51:05
Savanah
And being able to identify that early on, I think, gives them the confidence to then branch out in other ways and make those social connections as well. If they can start with something foundational, even with other like if you’re in a small school or something, you at least have that common identity. And I think that’s helpful.
01:06:51:05 – 01:06:56:19
Savanah
That was probably a really roundabout way of answering your question, I so apologize.
01:06:56:21 – 01:07:17:22
Rée
No, don’t apologize at all. I think they were it would they were very thorough. They’re very thorough branches. And I think it’s come full circle, but I do, want to be mindful of your time. And so just any last words of wisdom for the next generation that you want to impart.
01:07:18:00 – 01:07:41:04
Savanah
That’s such a big, a big ask. I don’t know, I think it does kind of go back to like if I was, you know, if I was talking to a high school class, you know, those extroverts take your introvert friends and keep inviting them to things. So that’s something that I wish that happened to me. Because even just extending the invite over and over is like, just that is so it means so much because it’s like, I want it.
01:07:41:04 – 01:08:11:05
Savanah
I’m desired to be here and I’m sure like it’s overstated. And, you know, there’s all sorts of like, you know, be kind as your words mean so much. And I think that they’re taken for granted a lot, especially when said behind the screen. And I think that that’s huge and, you know, maintain those social connections. I know, you know, find like just the two I you just need to if you have more, even better.
01:08:11:05 – 01:08:48:00
Savanah
But you just need like you need to really good friends or just value, but who will also, I think who are like minded to an extent. I think you need to be challenged to be your perspective needs to be challenged. So I don’t think they need to be exactly like you. But I think just like minded in the sense of like, you know, goal oriented, who will challenge you to take it to the next level, who will, you know, be competitive with you at least a little bit, whether in school or sports or just, you know, at make you ask questions.
01:08:48:00 – 01:09:07:21
Savanah
And I, I wish that that kids would just and not toddlers because they will always ask questions but keep that mindset of like ask all of the questions, you know, challenge it within reason. I mean, do it respectfully, but ask the questions of why? Why is this structure the way it is? Why is the system the way it is?
01:09:07:23 – 01:09:32:04
Savanah
How can I change it to improve it? Why? You know, why are we learning this? What is the relevance of this? And how can it be applied to right now? And I think just like constantly questioning those things, I think it’s so important that it’s just knowing how to do, like knowing how to do your research, I think is, yeah, it’s is so important.
01:09:32:06 – 01:09:49:12
Savanah
And just kind of it helps you set that that strong foundation and knowing who you are, knowing what you believe, why you believe it. And then through there, I think you find your identity and your friends and succeed from their.
01:09:49:14 – 01:09:58:12
Rée
Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.
References
- The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt (book)
About Savanah
Savanah is a Senior Health Analyst with EMI Advisors, specializing in the intersection of social determinants of health, care planning, and health information technology. Savanah is Certified in Public Health (CPH) through the National Board of Public Health Examiners (NBPHE) and is a Certified Health Education Specialist (CHES) by the National Commission of Health Education Credentialing (NCHEC). She believes that public health is more than policy and advocacy but strongly rooted in communication and universal design.
Savanah graduated from Towson University in 2015 with a Bachelor of Science in Cell and Molecular Biology before pursuing her Master of Public Health in Social and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Florida in 2019. She enjoys qualitative research, exploring whole-person health, family health and dynamics, and community programming. Savanah also has a background in clinical health settings providing patient care and volunteered as the Digital Media Coordinator at a local non-profit. Savanah uses these grassroots perspectives to influence her public health work today.
Savanah resides in the US with her husband and two children.