Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Juan-Felipe, engineer, policy officer, and CEO of Join a Town—about the 180° change in his journey when his straight-A and honors* track record changed for the first time during college. Juan-Felipe discusses the transformative impact that observing the significant disparities in living conditions between himself and marginalized populations within his own city had on his life trajectory. Check out this important episode that will make you check your privilege.
Here is our edited conversation.
Auto-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:08 – 00:00:26:22
Speaker 1
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, and large government funded programs and small academies.
00:00:27:00 – 00:00:48:17
Speaker 1
I design curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea like me, I hadn’t received adequate attention in school or at home. I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale.
00:00:48:19 – 00:01:23:04
Speaker 1
To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems. To rethink what schools can be. What it should be. When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with one Philippe, engineer, policy officer and CEO of Join a Town, about the 180 degree change in his journey when his straight A and honors track record changed for the first time during college.
00:01:23:06 – 00:01:50:04
Speaker 1
One Philippe discusses the transformative impact that observing the significant disparities in living conditions between himself and the marginalized populations within his own city had on his life trajectory. Check out this important episode that will make you check your privilege. Here is our edited conversation.
00:01:50:06 – 00:02:11:12
Speaker 2
Okay, so let’s start with the last part. So I grew up in, in Colombia, in, Bogota, which is the capital of, of the country. I don’t know if, if you know it. It’s a very beautiful country. I come from, middle high class, family from, from this country. They are both of my parents are lawyers.
00:02:11:13 – 00:02:30:09
Speaker 2
On one side of the family side of, of my mother, they are basically all lawyers. And then, from the side of my father are a mix of different professions. Some pilots, airplane pilots, for example, all the lawyers, we have, teachers and other kind of, of people, but, yeah.
00:02:30:09 – 00:03:01:16
Speaker 2
So mostly, well-educated people in, in general terms, I was born to, Nestle in the capital city, and, I started a school at, four years old. It was a private school. So in Colombia, the educational system, the public educational system is not, that good, actually. So, most of the people that have the means they will pay for, for private, education.
00:03:01:18 – 00:03:28:05
Speaker 2
So just to, to set up a little bit of the context, for you to understand, where I come from, in general terms, what my, parents would say about, my education. So, I was very nerdy in general terms. So, always, was the one having, like, a super great, I was obsessed with, with, with my grades in general.
00:03:28:07 – 00:03:55:04
Speaker 2
I always wanted to have, like, the best, qualifications to notes, in any subject that I would, that it would seen in the school. It wasn’t something that was imposed to me in reality, because my parents let you know that sometimes, you have people that are, which parents? They will, pressure a lot, them in order to, perform at a school.
00:03:55:06 – 00:04:17:07
Speaker 2
It was actually not my case. I would like, at some point in my life, they they, they saw that, I was just doing well. And then, and then they stopped to, pressuring me. But I did it most, for myself. So I really wanted to be, the best, at school.
00:04:17:09 – 00:04:29:05
Speaker 2
I was actually a bit obsessed with that. So that was, somehow what it was, how it was in, back then at the time.
00:04:29:07 – 00:04:44:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s kind of amazing. You know, I’m wondering, do you know why you were obsessed with your grades or why you wanted to be at the top, or why you wanted to perform? Well, do you know exactly where that came from?
00:04:44:13 – 00:05:10:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it’s very difficult to to pinpoint exact moment because, you know, like, it’s, always, a sum of different, things. I would say, the first thing is that I had, and, and, that I admired a lot at the time because she was doing very great in, university. So that kind of made me feel like, oh, wait, maybe one of the, went to be like, like her.
00:05:10:17 – 00:05:32:15
Speaker 2
So it was, let’s say that the first person that I looked up to, and then I started to look also like two other role models in, in general, internationally. And I would say, so that was, let’s say you first part of the motivation. And the other part is that, when I was in primary school, I, I started to get recognition.
00:05:32:15 – 00:05:57:08
Speaker 2
So I remember perfectly the first time when I, when I got, the best GRE of the great of the, of the class, the teacher made me go to the front and say, like, so say how well done this, you did amazing. And that kind of feeling. It was, very great to me. And I wanted to, I guess I wanted to, to have that more.
00:05:57:10 – 00:06:15:10
Speaker 2
And that’s how I think, it started and then, Yeah. And then after that, it was, I’m always been, a very ambitious person in general in terms of, what I want to achieve in, in life. So that was part of it, I guess.
00:06:15:12 – 00:06:38:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s actually a really good reflection. I’m wondering, like, what the expectations your parents had of you. And do you think they adequately gave you that kind of approval or validation at home that you were getting at school? Or was that kind of missing?
00:06:38:11 – 00:07:00:18
Speaker 2
Actually, it was on the other side. And it’s very weird to say because, normally the story goes, goes around. They were actually worried because I was obsessed with, with the grades in general terms. So, they wanted me to, to go out more, to have more friends. So they were and were always encouraging me to, get socialize and get to talk to people.
00:07:00:20 – 00:07:36:08
Speaker 2
So it was actually the other way around. So I was always like, trying to, to do the best at, at the school. And they were, pushing me to the other side and saying, you have to be also more social. You have to develop other skills. And I very grateful for that because, I guess, they, they tried to, to have some, to form a person that would be, integral in, in, all the ways, that would be able to, to have, like, not only academic skills, but but, to do well in life, in general.
00:07:36:09 – 00:07:55:19
Speaker 2
So, so yeah. So I’m very grateful for, for them and in terms of validation, they were always, very they were very nice parents. They were, amazing, always supported, whatever. I wanted to always, were there to listen to me. So, I guess I’m very lucky to be able to have the those kind of parents.
00:07:55:19 – 00:08:14:21
Speaker 2
And also, of course, it has a history of, of their family. So they were very well educated. So anytime I needed, advice and something or, something in school, they were there for me. So. Yeah. So it’s, it’s also it’s lucky, but it’s also like, the effort that they put into it, it was so it was great.
00:08:14:23 – 00:08:20:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s really awesome. Did you have siblings also or was it just you?
00:08:20:11 – 00:08:30:17
Speaker 2
I do, I do, I have, a younger, sister, and she. Yeah, she’s nine years, nine years. We are nine years apart.
00:08:30:19 – 00:08:43:04
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. Okay, so you had a lot of really good attention for nine years before your sister came around. Okay, okay. I’m kind of getting a really good picture. That’s really incredible.
00:08:43:04 – 00:09:10:06
Speaker 2
And, I was for nine years, I was, not only single child, but also, single grandchild. So it was for me. So the only, person in, in, in my family. So it was a lot of attention. I was very, like, surrounded by, by my family. Both like, the, the, closer families of my parents and then my aunts and, and grandparents.
00:09:10:06 – 00:09:12:05
Speaker 2
They were also there all the time.
00:09:12:07 – 00:09:40:12
Speaker 1
Oh, that’s so lovely. I wonder about your communication and your socialization. You mentioned that kind of briefly, how your parents were like, oh, you need to go socialize. You need to, you know, be more well-rounded, don’t just, you know, focus on school and things like that. So I’m kind of curious, like, how did you communicate with other people when you were younger and while you were in school?
00:09:40:16 – 00:09:47:18
Speaker 1
Like, what was your social dynamics? I guess, with your peers, with your educators and people?
00:09:47:20 – 00:10:10:02
Speaker 2
It’s very it’s very curious because that has been something that I have been working on my entire life in reality. So before I has I have been always very shy in, in, communicating with, with others and expressing emotions and things like that. I think that I’m very like, similar to my, to my father.
00:10:10:04 – 00:10:31:02
Speaker 2
And I always try to, be more, as my mother, like, they are they are a very good school. Let’s say they are complementary to each other. Yeah. But yeah. So my, my father has a different, there are different types of, intelligence. So my father is very, diligent in terms of, of, the structure, the logic of things.
00:10:31:04 – 00:10:57:09
Speaker 2
But my, my mother is, is, socially intelligent. So she’s always making friends, talking to people. She’s always able to connect with, no matter who, and always be able to, to take out a smile from of of someone. So I always try to, to be more, like I already, I want to be like my father and I, I try, like, or exercise myself in order to, to improve, on other side.
00:10:57:09 – 00:11:34:02
Speaker 2
So that has been, how it did. Yeah. How it was, for me at school in general. I would say that, that it was, yeah. So I had to, not many friends. I was always, with, a group of four, friends, which were my, my best friends at the end, when I was finishing high school, I kind of opened myself, to other people because I had kind of, some remarks of people saying, at some point during exercise that they did, in, in a retreat, in a school, they say that, yes.
00:11:34:04 – 00:12:00:07
Speaker 2
I, they would not be close to myself because I was very close to very close to to, to people to talk to other people. To and I, it was something that I didn’t realized, before in, in, in the past. So before that moment, it was not something that I was aware of. And then when I entered, university, one of my main goals for that for my first, very first semester.
00:12:00:07 – 00:12:43:20
Speaker 2
So, it was to make as many friends as I could. So I started to talking to a lot of people. I started to, to, Yeah, to participate in more, social events, to exercise that part of myself. And then little by little, I started to get comfortable, around people, comfortable about, speaking around, and, and I think that helped me a lot because before, while I was, like, very focused on, on the grades, I discovered that there are other things that are also, very important and nicer to, to, enter like, in leadership positions within my university in, student organizations and stuff
00:12:43:20 – 00:12:51:18
Speaker 2
like that. And I think that shaped who I am today. So, so it was an exercise that it was, worth it a lot.
00:12:51:20 – 00:13:15:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s so when you said, you know, that something that you’ve been working on your entire life, like that ability to open up to people, that ability to communicate and socialize because you hadn’t realized that you were sort of shy. And maybe I don’t think you said these words, but the way that I interpreted was that you were maybe difficult to approach in some kind of way.
00:13:15:15 – 00:13:33:08
Speaker 1
And so I wonder, like, how did your teachers or your peers try to change that or did they give you any feedback on how to be more open or to be more social, or to be more dynamic with people?
00:13:33:10 – 00:14:00:06
Speaker 2
I don’t know, my peers. Maybe not, because at that age, like, when you’re, teenager, you just, go with, with the flow and with try you try to fit in, in the society and the bubble that you’re you’re in. So they’re not much reflection on, on these on how, like, the advice in, in, in how, someone could change something.
00:14:00:08 – 00:14:30:11
Speaker 2
But for, from my teachers. Yeah. So I got, encourage, in different ways to, to potentiate the, the skills that, that I had, but also to develop other skills that I lacked. So in that case, yeah, it was also looking to, to be able to study in a school that, would look at a, as a person like, human beings instead of just, grades and, and, and students that have, have to do well in, in a school.
00:14:30:13 – 00:15:00:08
Speaker 2
So I was able to explore other things like, I entered, for example, in the school art, an art, major, although I’m actually an engineer. But I was able to explore that part of myself, of, creativity. And I enjoyed that, a lot. Yeah. So that was, kind of, and I got advice from different, teachers saying like, you have to open up, you have to relax in terms of, of, of the notes and things like that.
00:15:00:10 – 00:15:22:13
Speaker 2
I remember, like very specific conversations, but, always in a positive way. So they would not say, like, I was doing something wrong because actually it was the best student in, in the school in reality, in terms of, of the, of the grade. So they would not say to me like, stop doing what you are doing because I was doing great, but, but yeah.
00:15:22:13 – 00:15:31:05
Speaker 2
So they will try to develop, other parts of, or skills that elect to did like it was, it was great.
00:15:31:07 – 00:15:54:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. That’s really awesome. I mean, for your teachers to kind of take you aside and have those conversations with you, to kind of encourage you because they knew that you were already doing something great. They just wanted to give you that extra edge. Maybe. So you mentioned you studied engineering, and then you kind of explored the arts.
00:15:54:13 – 00:16:07:21
Speaker 1
And so I would love to know, like, what did you study in, university? What was your major? And then how did you end up, becoming interested in, social impact?
00:16:07:23 – 00:16:37:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. That’s, a long story. I started university, I studied industrial, engineer, back in, when I was back in, in high school. So, I didn’t know what to study, actually, because, you know, I come from a family of lawyers. So that was also, an option. But I wanted to also, I loved maths, maths, like, chemistry and other subjects in school.
00:16:37:16 – 00:17:09:05
Speaker 2
So I started to look to other kind of careers, and it was very lost at the beginning. And then I selected, industrial engineer because it was, brought in terms of the scope and things you could do. I had a discussion like, every year, when people were approaching to, to senior a senior year, they would bring people from different professions that have studied different professions to talk to, to the, to the children, so we could select better, what we wanted to do in life.
00:17:09:07 – 00:17:36:13
Speaker 2
And then I had one, conversation, with, a manager of a company. At that time, I was very interested in, in, the corporate life, and, how companies were managed because I was doing, like at the end of, the last year of, of school, of high school, you would in my, in my school, you would have like, let’s say a specialization, something like that.
00:17:36:15 – 00:18:15:03
Speaker 2
And you would start seeing some, courses that were not actually within the national curriculum, but was was more related to things that you wanted to study. And I did, on that, like I did accounting and I did, introduction to, to business administration. So it was, it was necessary. I was very feeling, going into the corporate life, I was feeling like, the, the historic systems of, of companies and how people in leadership positions would, start, solving those, very complex problems.
00:18:15:05 – 00:18:36:06
Speaker 2
So I got interested into that and that, but I also loved, like, maths and other than chemistry and other, subjects. So, I would say like, okay, industrial engineering, something that would provide me those for both sides because, it’s actually the name of the career. But here in France, it’s industrial systems engineer. And it was,
00:18:36:07 – 00:19:03:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So solving, problems, within different industries. So it was great. So I selected it for that. It was very different from what, I initially thought, so we entered, I entered, university, and then I started, I started my career as, any other person, and, with all the different subjects that, that I would study.
00:19:03:16 – 00:19:35:03
Speaker 2
So I fell in love with, optimization, which is, major within the, the industrial, engineering career. And then, so I started to continue with that, and then the opportunity to, to come to France, presented itself, actually from the first semester. So with the induction in, in, in first semester, the, dean of, of the engineering school, he said, like he has studied in France.
00:19:35:03 – 00:19:54:06
Speaker 2
And he said, like, we have agreements, to have double degree and with, with some French universities. So you should, look up if you are interested, into the, the are these are, very good, opportunities of the present the like the whole not only the whole program, but also the opportunities that we could have.
00:19:54:07 – 00:20:23:18
Speaker 2
And it was at that point in time, still very obsessed with, with. Great. So, yeah. So I started I set up, apart from, from having other friends trying to have a little friends, I set up myself to, to have, like the honorary degree, which, and and I wanted to at that time, it was not clear, so I didn’t know if I wanted or not, to go to, to France to study, but, yeah.
00:20:23:18 – 00:20:52:11
Speaker 2
So that was the first time, it was a possibility. So, so after that, I, I started my, my career, my studies in, and I remember, like one point that, that really marked and made the difference. It was the first time I, a loser, occurred. I don’t know if that’s well said in in English, but, yeah.
00:20:52:11 – 00:21:18:02
Speaker 2
So I basically I had the grades to pass, for the first time in, in my life because, because. Yeah. So I was not used to I always would catch up things very fast. So I was not used to study that much in reality to, especially when it was, math related, topics like calculus and and things like that.
00:21:18:07 – 00:21:44:18
Speaker 2
I would not need, I would not have the need to study, that much because, from class, I would catch up things very fast, very quick. And it would be able to know how to do things. And then, my, my approach to learning was also like when it’s starting with, French with friends actually teaching them and, saying, like explaining to them, how, how exercises were done, and stuff like that.
00:21:44:18 – 00:22:04:23
Speaker 2
So, it was really, my way to, to approach learning. And then I ended up with, with a teacher that was very methodical and that had a very specific way of, of teaching, in which, I always had to understood, what was behind. So, for example, when do you present that me a problem? A math problem.
00:22:05:01 – 00:22:27:08
Speaker 2
I would not be able to solve it or just to apply the formula. And as, many people say, just to apply the formula, that if I do not understand what is behind and the and the logic behind it, I probably would not be able to do it. So the problem with, with this teacher is that she was a mathematician and she was like very methodical and would say, this is the type of question and this is the way you solve it.
00:22:27:10 – 00:22:58:16
Speaker 2
So I didn’t catch up because I was not understanding that logic behind, and ended up, didn’t I didn’t pass, on that semester. It was a very, a huge shock for me because, since I wanted, like, my objective going through university was to get, honorific degree, after losing or after, not passing the, one single course you were not allowed to have, honorary degree.
00:22:58:18 – 00:23:25:10
Speaker 2
So I said to myself, and I remember the perfectly the moment when, when this thought come to my mind, I say, okay, so if I cannot, if I cannot, shine with, with the greats, how else can I distinguish myself, from from the like the rest of, of the people? How else will I, will I be the best?
00:23:25:12 – 00:23:53:03
Speaker 2
And actually, because I was like, very that, result, that, objectively oriented, type of guy. And then, I said, okay, so I will start doing other things. I joined different associations. I joined the study groups. I joined the investigation, like research, projects with, different teachers. I started to, to do a lot of things.
00:23:53:05 – 00:24:28:13
Speaker 2
And that was actually I actually grateful for, because of the, like, for that teacher to, to made me, loose the the, or do not have the, the, the, the great to pass because that actually changed my life. So I ended up, joining a student association, which was, for industrial, engineers. It’s called, the by the time now, it’s called I s it, and it’s.
00:24:28:14 – 00:25:08:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. So there is an industrial engineer association. It’s the biggest thing in the world. It has like a presence in multiple countries and continents. And I was part of the hub, within my university and joined that organization when I began, after some time, president of, of that student association. And when I joined, I actually met with people that were very, intelligent and then and they were all, preparing and they started studying friends, like at least 5 or 6, people inside these, student organizations were studying, to, to have a double degree.
00:25:08:03 – 00:25:36:23
Speaker 2
So that motivated me, way more, at that point in time. So I had a discussion with, with my parents, and they said, yes, I really would like to, to go to France and, finish my career there. And that’s how it, it started. And as for the question that you ask on, in terms of what, made me interested in the social field, it was, I mean, later.
00:25:36:23 – 00:26:03:16
Speaker 2
So it was already in, in France. So when I came here, I was, actually exposed to many different things that, I wasn’t before. Before, leaving my, my country, you know, like, I have my entire life lived in a bubble, in which, I would join or, let’s say, be with the same type of people, as myself.
00:26:03:18 – 00:26:30:12
Speaker 2
So in a school like, would be would be all from the more or less the same, social economical background. We would have the same kind of, of studies. We would have like, parents that were, well-educated. So I didn’t know other types of, or ways of, of life that existed. So of course, you would see that in television.
00:26:30:12 – 00:26:55:12
Speaker 2
People would, talk to you about that and you would experience that somehow on the periphery, but you would never the exposed to that, when it came to friends. First was I discovered, like, I was in a new university in which 30% of the students were international. So, I came to discover many cultures, many ways of thinking, many ways of, of living.
00:26:55:18 – 00:27:22:19
Speaker 2
And it was amazing because, because I, I think it’s always great for any person to have exposure to people from different backgrounds, from different cultures, to learn, how people think. That’s something that, that would, not take away. It would actually give you a lot, as a person. And after that, I remember that I have always been like,
00:27:22:21 – 00:27:46:23
Speaker 2
Let’s it’s sensible to, to social subjects, but I never acted upon that in, in reality, until one time, when I went back to, to Colombia and, and I had, a friend who told me, like, I know that you are interested in this, kind of, social stuff. He was, volunteering with an organization in Colombia.
00:27:46:23 – 00:28:20:15
Speaker 2
It’s called Petro, which is, they build homes for people, of very vulnerable backgrounds in, in Colombia. And, and it’s a huge, organization. They are, in, in, in, the entire, American and, and and he said like, there’s a, German guy who is currently, who is teaching, children within the community where we are, working with, and he goes every Sunday, but he’s actually doing, a tour, around Colombia.
00:28:20:19 – 00:28:43:00
Speaker 2
So he will be out three weeks. And you are here on holidays, so I don’t want to disturb you, but, but, could you please come to, to, to this place and. Yeah. And and and teach, very basic English to these, children. And I said, yeah, okay, let’s, let’s do it. And it was mind blowing.
00:28:43:02 – 00:29:05:04
Speaker 2
Because it was for me the first time that I, encountered this kind of, of, situation in which you would have in the same city I grew up. Like, it was like 21 years of my life living in, in Bogota. But it would never go to that part of, of the city which is the south, part of of of the city.
00:29:05:06 – 00:29:33:12
Speaker 2
And I discovered people like, if we were to take the, the public transportation system until the last station and then, take, a bus, until the last station. And then we had to take, kind of a Jeep or, a type of vehicle that would allow us to go to the neighborhood in which, these people lived because, it was not, they didn’t have the infrastructure.
00:29:33:12 – 00:29:54:13
Speaker 2
So the the streets and everything, they were not, actually done it was just, dirt. And you would see the the way the houses were built. Some of them were not even houses in reality, but made with this, like, like the thin layer of, of metal. They would put on top, of the, of the building.
00:29:54:13 – 00:30:32:07
Speaker 2
So they’re very, rustic places. And I would say like, wow. So it’s it’s crazy because I would imagine these type of conditions in very rural areas, but not in the city where I grew up, like, as close as, as, as I was. So it was the first, let’s say that was the first, the first shock, then, before that, so before arriving there the day before I started, like, studying the statistics of, of the place, to see, like, what were the problems or stuff like that?
00:30:32:07 – 00:31:02:12
Speaker 2
They have been always super nerdy, so, so I, I wanted to, to understand the context, before, and then when I arrived, there was a huge problem in Colombia of, of teenager, pregnancy, and actually specifically for those, type of, of, of places, you would have, like 50% of, of the girls that would be, that would be, pregnant during their, teen, years.
00:31:02:13 – 00:31:27:10
Speaker 2
And I would say, like, when they get there, and to meet with, with the children to which I was, supposed to teach English. I am I looked at the girls. They were 12 years old, and they said, like, wow. So there’s a huge percentage of there that will be pregnant next year. And when they looked and they were just child, so they were they will children.
00:31:27:10 – 00:31:52:04
Speaker 2
They will very, very, small, you know, like, they were not developed at all. They would say, like, how is that even possible to one thing is to, is to see or to read a statistic. And other completely different thing is to, to see the reality. So that was the second shock. And the third one was the discussion that I had with, with a young boy, and he told me that he was in seventh.
00:31:52:09 – 00:32:19:13
Speaker 2
He, he, he was, 15 years old. He was in seventh grade. And, at that age, I was already, in, so the educational system in Colombia goes up to, the 11th grade, which is the last year of senior year. So at that age, I was already, in 10th, grade going through, or passing through, to, 11th.
00:32:19:15 – 00:32:40:19
Speaker 2
So he was at least 3 or 4 years below what it was at that age. And he said to me that he was only studying Saturday. So I was like, why are you only studying Saturdays? And I said, no, it’s because, because it’s, it’s hard because I have to wake up at three m the morning and work for one hour to get to school, during the, the week.
00:32:40:19 – 00:33:09:18
Speaker 2
So it’s, it’s way too hard. And he was, like, shocked. And then I started asking him about, about, the people that he admired, in life. And then he pointed out a guy that was like we were, it was 10 a.m. in the morning, and, there was a guy that was already, already like, with, a table full of bottles of beers, completely drunk, on a Sunday morning.
00:33:09:20 – 00:33:41:05
Speaker 2
And he was the the person that had the most money within the, the community. And I said, wow. So at that age, I was already like, I had international, role up, international role models. And I would say, like, I cannot believe so it’s, we were completely different. And that’s when I realized the privilege that I have had, during my life because of course, I had, like, of course, I was very, very, hardworking person.
00:33:41:05 – 00:34:00:07
Speaker 2
I was a very hardworking person. But I had all the support that, my family would give to me. They my teachers would give to me like that, like all the, the surroundings and, and, that, that I had, it’s something that they would, they would, help me to achieve, what I wanted to achieve.
00:34:00:09 – 00:34:21:16
Speaker 2
So on the other side of the spectrum, you have this, this, type of, of people that, are in a very vulnerable place in which they don’t have the support they need. And usually they also live in a bubble. So the difference is that I had the tools to break mine. Yeah, but he has no the tools to break his.
00:34:21:18 – 00:34:38:19
Speaker 2
So he was able to he was confined in the place where he was born. He was I asked him and he said like, he never left the neighborhood in which we were. We were in. So he was, never able to see, like, other things while I was already like, an international student.
00:34:38:19 – 00:35:12:02
Speaker 2
I was, seeing, like, many, many different things. At that point in life, I was, already doing my, my masters. I was finishing my career. It was a double degree. And I started like, seeing curses also to, to, to do a masters. So it was actually a triple degree. So, but I was very focused, yet on the corporate side, and I wanted to, I had a list of ten companies in which I wanted to work.
00:35:12:04 – 00:35:33:01
Speaker 2
The first of, of of those was Amazon. Well, which, where I actually work there, for seven years. So that’s the, the first, company I wanted to work because it was a technological company working in logistics, which is what I was studying. And it also had, they didn’t have, presence in Latin America.
00:35:33:01 – 00:36:17:21
Speaker 2
So my plan was to, start working, within the company. And then when they opened, to Latin America, I would move there on this start growing with, with the company exponentially to be able to be like, incorporate, leadership as fast as I could. That was the initial plan. But then after that moment when, when I had that discussion that day, I, it was a, a switch in my mindset, you know, like, what what we could see in, in, in this, system thinking, so my mindset completely, completely changed, and I said, like, to myself, like, I really
00:36:17:21 – 00:36:45:21
Speaker 2
want, myself to, when I retire to look back and say, like, okay, so you built a great company. So that’s, my answer changed. And I said, no, that’s not what I want. I want to, to change people’s life, to be able to reduce inequalities and to break bubbles. And I said that that that’s, that’s a new life goal.
00:36:45:23 – 00:37:09:21
Speaker 2
That took me years to, to, to get there, to where I finished my my masters. I actually entered, I did that my internship in Amazon, as I always, wanted before, and I started working there. It was a very interesting company. It was, it was really amazing, because I learned, a lot.
00:37:09:23 – 00:37:38:16
Speaker 2
But I always had in mind, the social, part that was, now part of myself. So instead of of, investing myself 100 to 100% to, the development of my career within Amazon, I started to do other things, at the site. So in 2014, I joined, movement, which, was called to all for education or in Spanish as todos por la education.
00:37:38:18 – 00:38:04:07
Speaker 2
And basically what happened there is that, so the, the movement would promote, education and the political agenda of the country through citizen mobilization. So we had people in different places. So I was coordinating all the teams, of the Colombians abroad, and then after that, I joined the board of, of the, of this organization.
00:38:04:09 – 00:38:36:15
Speaker 2
I started I created, another organization that, was looking to promote entrepreneurship from, emerging markets. So we would open the mic to people, having solutions to people coming from emerging, countries, and, and trying to create, companies within, in France. But we were like, we were able to do events in different countries, in nine different countries, and trying to, yeah, to lift up, entrepreneurs, coming from the global South.
00:38:36:18 – 00:39:08:14
Speaker 2
So that’s one of it. And then the one that I’m currently working in, which started, just as a voluntary, organization with, a couple friends. It’s called Chinatown. And, it started to, in order to promote sustainable development in, in vulnerable communities. So I started to get myself involved more and more, on social, related to activities, social, social impact related related activities.
00:39:08:16 – 00:39:23:22
Speaker 2
And at some point, I said, like, I decided to, to make the switch. And you see, I really want this to be, 100% of my working time. And that’s how it, it happened. So that’s kind of the the long story.
00:39:24:00 – 00:40:03:02
Speaker 1
The scenic view. But it was a very amazing story. Amazing story. And, yeah, I think that a lot of your insights and your revelations, are really inspiring. And that that, that realization that you had so much privilege and that you had a lot of support and opportunities to get to where you were, even though you did put in a lot of work, like a lot of the infrastructure was there for you to, be able to self-actualize a lot faster.
00:40:03:08 – 00:40:33:21
Speaker 1
Like, I mean, if we’re looking at Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and things like that, but the people that you had seen, in that village and right in your city, not too far away from where you grew up, that you saw the, the teen pregnancy rate that, you know, that, young boy was in seventh grade because he could only study on Saturdays, because he had to walk an hour to school.
00:40:33:23 – 00:41:03:15
Speaker 1
And he had to wake up at three in the morning like that is. Yeah. I can’t imagine seeing that and not being changed somehow. And so I think it’s it’s amazing that you carried the spirit of what you learned and you, you know, joined movements, you joined, organizations, and you created opportunities to actually give back to your community.
00:41:03:17 – 00:41:59:09
Speaker 1
And so I really wanted to know more about when we think about, teaching the next generation of students going forward. What would you so imagine you are now in school. And you are, looking at all the technology you’re looking at, what the future is going to look like. It’s probably uncertain. But looking ahead, if you were just starting school, what do you think you wish you would have known, about your bubble or what would you have wanted to witness to break that bubble?
00:41:59:11 – 00:42:12:06
Speaker 1
To learn about the different perspectives and the different thinking styles and the different living styles and conditions of other people, what would you have wanted to know more about?
00:42:12:08 – 00:42:58:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, so I think I would answer in two separate parts of the first two, like is the individual and then the system in terms of the individual. So, as a, as a person, I think, for myself, it’s empathy. So trying to understand better, other types of situations and having exercises or in, in school and things that would show, different realities, apart from, from, the reality that I, that I could have and also trying to understand different ways of thinking, different ways of, like, we could think differently and does does not made us, make us enemies.
00:42:58:04 – 00:43:24:02
Speaker 2
Like, we have we are currently in a, in a world in which, everything it’s very, polarized and, and, and I don’t think that should be, that should be the case. You can, like, think in a way. And we, should be able to understand each other somehow, because we all have history and we all think in the way we think because of several, different situations that came up, in life.
00:43:24:04 – 00:44:05:22
Speaker 2
So, this kind of critical thinking, it’s something that, that it’s very important for, for, children to have, in order to be able to sort of like, different type of, of situations. Also, I would say that it’s, very important to have, the, the ability on, learn how to learn if, if I’m clear, because we are in a world that is very, it’s, evolving, like, ever evolving, like all the time changing, and now the skills that we need for, for the future, will certainly not be the skills that we are thought today.
00:44:06:00 – 00:44:31:03
Speaker 2
So we will always need to be, like, learning new things like, always like, having a curious mind, having, actualize ourselves in, in, in different ways. So it’s something that, so that kind of skill in, in, in a how to, how to learn new things, it’s very, very important. And now as a system, I think we are the system.
00:44:31:03 – 00:44:54:12
Speaker 2
It’s it’s very complicated. And it we still learn a lot while working for the French. Labor ministry. So after Amazon, I worked for, for the for the ministry. And we studied ways to include variable level people into the labor market, and I could make, parallels between, that were like, accompanying people to the labor market into the, into what we have in, in education.
00:44:54:12 – 00:45:18:07
Speaker 2
So I think they’re peripheral. Barriers or or yeah. So things that that would not allow, a person to achieve their full potential. So as you said, like, the fact that this, guy had to work one hour to get to school, the fact that, maybe, his, audience were not, educated.
00:45:18:07 – 00:45:56:09
Speaker 2
So they have, for example, at some point in life, I, I gave a scholarship to, to student, of a very vulnerable background in, in Colombia. And he actually, I had to, to, talk to him several times and convince him to continue studying because he had social pressure from their peers and, his family to stop studying in university when they start working because they would, like, historically, he was the first person of his family, getting to higher education.
00:45:56:15 – 00:46:15:16
Speaker 2
And they would not see the value, the value in that because they never experienced, that. So they would say like, it’s a waste, of time. They would think that the system is always corrupt. So there’s opportunities are not for, for them. So they had to start helping the family as fast as, as he could.
00:46:15:18 – 00:46:39:16
Speaker 2
And they would have he would have, a huge peer and family pressure. And that was something that I never had. So, in my case, it was the other way around. Maybe not for myself, but for people. Like me on on the same, socio economical level, you would have your parents pressuring for you to get, degree, for, too.
00:46:39:18 – 00:47:21:02
Speaker 2
Well, in life. So we have, like, different point of pressure. Like, for me, it was to, to, to have, my, professional dedication. But for him, it was to start working. And that would mean, it’s a barrier to, to, to education. So you would have a very complex system in which the, the mindset of people and everything and the situation in life, like infrastructure, access to, to, like, with the transportation and, and things like that, that they would not be, or they would not have, and that’s something that will play a huge role in terms of, of what they could,
00:47:21:04 – 00:47:43:09
Speaker 2
actually achieve. So it’s not only the effort that the person would put in because people with, in vulnerable situation, usually their, the, the effort that they put in, it’s four times higher or even more than, what, someone like myself, you know, privilege from a privileged background had to put, into it to earn, the same thing.
00:47:43:09 – 00:48:09:02
Speaker 2
So it’s, it’s, it’s something that, that has to be resolved somehow. And, and we say to solve that kind of, of, issue, is to invest, invest in education as much, as much as we can, to start developing like, all the things the, the that people in, in vulnerable backgrounds would need in order to get, to get, educated.
00:48:09:02 – 00:48:33:03
Speaker 2
And I think it’s something that it’s, it’s a very important. And I also have system thinkers and, and people like, that are designing public policies to, to understand, what the impact, of, of the decision making of they are doing, could have on, on how, things are public policies that they are currently applying could improve, people’s life.
00:48:33:03 – 00:49:07:08
Speaker 2
And what is most effective and what is not because, usually, the decision makers, they, they, take a decision based on what they think is right, but not something that is, will iterated and has a proven impact. And that’s something that it would advise them to also like, test, different solutions, try to learn what is best and then go there and, through innovation processes and, and things like that, be able to, to, put in place public policies that will effectively, improve, educational systems.
00:49:07:10 – 00:49:25:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. I know you mentioned a lot of really great points here. And I kind of wanted to first ask, like, did you learn French when you were in Bogota, or did you learn French when you got to France?
00:49:25:04 – 00:49:51:21
Speaker 2
I did, I studied seven months before coming to, to France. So I studied, I studied in, in a French agency, which is actually part of the, financed by the French, government. And then I came here. I was not I didn’t have the degree, the, let’s say the level I needed to enter university when I came for the first time.
00:49:51:23 – 00:50:16:12
Speaker 2
So I committed myself to, like they said, like they had a course. Summer course, to teach a French lady. It was intense. It was like six hours per day, of French, courses during a month. And that was supposed that was supposed to, to get me to the level I needed, for the, for the university.
00:50:16:14 – 00:50:35:18
Speaker 2
The first time, it was very hard. It was very hard because. So when I arrived, I would, of course, I could have a conversation, but it was very difficult, for the teachers on the on the classes in university. It was great because you had, like, the support and they were very, and initiating and and very clear, on the subjects also, it was math.
00:50:35:20 – 00:51:10:12
Speaker 2
So easy, easy to, to understand and some of the, of the, of the classes that I had, I already to those, in Colombia before. So it was like, so I really had the knowledge I needed. So that allowed me to it starts, let’s say getting better, better in, in, in French, the most difficult part, I would say it was the conversation, the day to day conversations with, with people like, colleagues or friends because they would is slang or not slang the term.
00:51:10:12 – 00:51:59:04
Speaker 1
Yes. Right. Less formal language. Yeah. So I actually wanted to know a little bit more about, the social impact, component, in going forward, you talked about empathy and how, you know, at the individual level, right, at the zoomed in level, that we want to help our young people understand how to, be in diversity, whether it’s cognitive diversity or narrative diversity or, like, socioeconomic diversity, whatever it might be, just to to have that exposure to, people who live different lives than you do.
00:51:59:06 – 00:52:24:21
Speaker 1
And then you also kind of talked about like this really important piece of like learning how to learn, right? Because I think in the past, education has really been about top down, information. Right. And kind of, the authorities deciding what you need to know, but now you have to be a lot more dynamic and be able to pick up kind of like you did with French.
00:52:24:23 – 00:53:01:05
Speaker 1
Right? Like if you want a certain opportunity, you have to earn and, obtain these prerequisites in order to get to the next level. And then also, you talked about being curious and, yeah. And then also then you talked a little bit about, the systemic, the zoomed out things that we need to do, which is really to remove those peripheral barriers that get in the way of people, from accessing opportunities.
00:53:01:06 – 00:53:55:02
Speaker 1
And so I just kind of want to follow up on this, if you could change one thing, the most impactful thing that could remove barriers for the most vulnerable communities that you’ve either witnessed or that you know about, what do you think is the responsibility of a government, to remove those, barriers or, those kinds of obstacles, versus what is the responsibility of a private citizen, or just a coexisting member of society to help make that kind of social impact, towards those community members?
00:53:55:04 – 00:54:23:15
Speaker 2
Well, I think that we all play a part into, into the system. We are we are in in general terms. So I would say that, of course, the government has the tools and the infrastructure to be able to act. And to create, public policy that would be able to, to, to lift these kind of, of barriers.
00:54:23:17 – 00:54:53:09
Speaker 2
But, I would say that, as a private citizen, you also have some kind of, responsibility because you are part of, of a system, in which you would, benefit in certain ways, specifically people like, like myself, being able to access, opportunities and things like that. So it would be very, very,
00:54:53:11 – 00:55:21:21
Speaker 2
Let’s say. But for people like me not to try to get back to the system, the impact that I could have, as a private citizen is lesser than the impact that the government could have. And I could experience that while working in the French, ministry, because, of course, I always wanted to create, an organization. I wanted to have, impact, and change people’s life.
00:55:21:23 – 00:55:48:05
Speaker 2
But also, when I entered, into a French, labor ministry, I realized that you would have a huge, machine, which is always very complicated because the public sector is always like, it’s very weak. So you would have like, just to, to put into perspective. So you would have, the French, government would have like 5 million people working for you, like between teachers, like in the, in the whole entire system, you would have.
00:55:48:07 – 00:56:20:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, 5 million people. Amazon, which is the company I work. Previously they had like, 1 million people. Right now, I think it’s 1.4 million people in the entire world. So that’s why governments are not able to move as fast as we, think they could. And we see, like, there’s a lot of work. I see some people may think that, that governments, they do not, they do nothing, but it’s actually not true at all.
00:56:20:08 – 00:56:44:01
Speaker 2
It’s just that, it’s a very big machine. And make it move. It takes, it takes a lot of, a lot of, effort. But also it has the, the way and the tool, the tools, they need in order to have a huge impact over, the population and the most, vulnerable population within their, public policies, implementation.
00:56:44:03 – 00:57:29:03
Speaker 2
So I think the responsibility of, the government has to be, to try to solve, those problems, of course, but, that it’s not only, the government, problem or the government responsibility we all play a part into, into it. So if we are able to, in other ways to solve those problems, because the government by itself would not be able to implement all the things that, that they want, like, for example, when it was so working with the with the French minister ministry, we had experimentations I, we would let’s take, create a code for application for projects, and there would be civil society organizations that
00:57:29:03 – 00:58:02:23
Speaker 2
would apply in order to conduct the different, experimentations and to help, people and be in contact in direct contact with, with, vulnerable people. So it’s actually, I think it should be, a partnership. So there is a part, a huge part, of course. Coming from, from the public sector and government. But there is also a huge part coming from, from civil society, and organizations in order to, to fight for the rights to, to, solve social, problems because no one would solve better a problem.
00:58:02:23 – 00:58:34:21
Speaker 2
And so someone that has experienced it, and usually when you work for, for a government, you are from the outsider, perspective. And it’s not easy to get deep into a, into the problem to understand what are the root causes of, of the solution. So they have, to work with, with civil society, they have to get into with, with, maybe local, very local organizations that, that are trying to, to solve the problem and give them also the tools in order to, to be able to do so.
00:58:35:01 – 00:58:42:01
Speaker 2
So for me, the solution, it has to be like, a partnership is not one or the other. It has to be both.
00:58:42:03 – 00:59:17:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. And I want to be mindful of your time, so I just have this one question. And then my final question, which, I’ll ask together. So, you talk about partnership and, my big idea that I’m still working on is this idea of collaboration, of education across borders and like you talked about, regarding education, that we do have to work together.
00:59:17:05 – 00:59:51:15
Speaker 1
I am wondering if you think it’s possible for there to be an a curriculum that is not nationally bound, but that is internal bound. And if so, what do you think would be the important subjects we need to teach everybody in the world, to get towards this, vision of working together in partnership with everybody, to help the most vulnerable people.
00:59:51:17 – 01:00:06:06
Speaker 1
Kind of, you know, come up. And my last question is, is there any advice that you would like to give, people who are trying to change the education systems in their country?
01:00:06:08 – 01:00:36:11
Speaker 2
Okay, so the first question is a very complex one. Sure. Because, every of course, every country would have, specificities in terms of what they need their people to, to study and, and to learn and their approach to that. And always when we try to generalize something, it’s not usually the best, the best solution because you will try to apply things that worked in a, in a certain context at that.
01:00:36:11 – 01:01:08:22
Speaker 2
And those things may not work in, in different contexts. And we don’t have to go as far as across countries. You would see that like, for example, in in the case of Colombia, for example, you would have, people in the city learning something, but those, let’s say the same curriculum for a very rural area would be, first very difficult because they may not have the same infrastructure and, and things like that, and also may not apply to local, realities.
01:01:09:00 – 01:01:31:23
Speaker 2
So I would be very careful to, to try to generalize, although I think there are there are many things that, the every educational system has to have in common, let’s say a poor, things. And that’s what we, mentioned, before, like, of course, the basic, math skills, like, basics and science and stuff like that.
01:01:31:23 – 01:01:59:10
Speaker 2
I think that give us, as a person, like, the tools we need to understand, or have, let’s say, the general knowledge, and be able to live in, in society. I think we should also, add other kind of subjects more than, related to life, things like, for example, financial literacy. That’s something that, that we are lacking a lot.
01:01:59:12 – 01:02:34:10
Speaker 2
And it’s something that it’s, important for, for life. Let’s say more, citizenship. Education, something that how to, to live, within, our community, how to respect other people, how to have empathy. Those are things that are very important and more international. It’s a way it’s, thing. Yeah. So we have different, the cultures are there, thousands of, of different cultures in, in, in the world and, and, there is no culture better than the other.
01:02:34:14 – 01:03:05:22
Speaker 2
They are just, different, and learn from the from that is, it’s not it’s never, going to be a problem. It’s actually will, will enrich, everyone. So, it’s very important to, to, like, get people exposed, to different things. So they are not also afraid of it because sometimes this, fear and rejection that we are currently seeing in society is actually because of, lack of, of knowledge or lack of, of, yeah.
01:03:05:22 – 01:03:40:06
Speaker 2
So of meeting, people, with different, backgrounds, so that I would say and in terms of, of the second question, which is the advice to improve, the educational system in, in, in a country, I would say. First understand your system. So, because it’s it’s very complex. I have I find an example, a very specific example, in a project, social project with it in, in Congo with my, organization.
01:03:40:06 – 01:04:04:20
Speaker 2
And actually it was trying to improve the educational system of, of Congo. We designed a training on active learning, information and communication technology for education and, gender equality for teachers in, in high school, in partnership with, with an organization. My organization is called during the town. And the other organization is called Axion Trial.
01:04:04:22 – 01:04:34:00
Speaker 2
So we created this, this program to, change the way, teachers would, would teach because before that, they have a very traditional, pedagogy system in which the teacher goes and, and just like, say, whatever they have to say, and then they go, they would go out and, and. Yeah. So, it doesn’t matter if the children would, actually learn or not.
01:04:34:01 – 01:05:01:04
Speaker 2
They are just there to, transfer only directionally the knowledge. So that’s kind of the system, the how, it was currently shaped. And then we tried to change that, by, introducing active learning, in which the, teacher is not the is not the holder of the knowledge is actually, the child who is discovering, the knowledge is and and the teacher is just a guide through that process.
01:05:01:09 – 01:05:26:23
Speaker 2
So, it’s a, it’s a different way of, of working. And we started that and we confronted, we had a barrier, a huge barrier in which, you would have inspectors from the government, of, of Congo. That would not allow teacher teachers to change the way they are actually teaching because, it would be out of the, of the curriculum.
01:05:27:00 – 01:05:52:04
Speaker 2
So there there was not no flexibility under what they could do. So, that was a mistake on our side because we didn’t understand completely the system and how it worked. And actually, teachers, they would value what we, what we taught them. But they would say, like, I cannot apply this because if I do, I would get, but let’s say grades in my evaluation.
01:05:52:06 – 01:06:14:00
Speaker 2
So we actually had to, to go to the inspectors and say, okay, so let’s train them also. So we did that. So we, we included inspectors, so we could give the teachers the space, in which they could innovate in their, classrooms. And we would like, using different tools because it’s not only like when we were talking about technology.
01:06:14:00 – 01:06:34:14
Speaker 2
Also, it’s, what is available, in the conditions that you currently have, like they have a radio or they have, like recordings or things like that that we are used to. I was used to it, when I studied with, those are resources that, that they didn’t use, at the moment in, in Congo.
01:06:34:16 – 01:06:59:02
Speaker 2
So, yeah. So, just these for, to say that, it is hard. So changing a system is always hard. You have to understand, the system and do not take failure. So, a something that, so it cannot be change. You just, you learn from it and then you see how iterate, how you will iterate your model, how you will, iterate the action that you are going to take within your system.
01:06:59:02 – 01:07:15:01
Speaker 2
And then go ahead and start, and start, new experimentation, iteration process until you successfully are able to change, that system. So that would be my, my advice.
01:07:15:03 – 01:07:24:00
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.
About Juan-Felipe
Juan Felipe is a passionate leader with a diverse background in business and social innovation. As CEO and Co-Founder of Join a Town, he’s driving positive change through a unique platform which brings together an ecosystem of social entrepreneurs and individuals.
Previously, he leveraged his financial expertise at Amazon, managing multi-million dollar budgets and spearheading cost-saving initiatives across Europe. He also served as a Social Innovation Policy Officer at the French Ministry of Labor, demonstrating his commitment to creating a more equitable society.
Juan Felipe’s dedication extends beyond his professional career. He’s a recognized leader as a Global Shaper with the World Economic Forum and a One Young World Ambassador, actively contributing to global conversations.