Hi, I’m Rée.
Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergence, learning disabilities, and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned.
In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies. I designed curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy.
Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea, who like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me.
homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale. To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems to rethink what schools can be. What it should be, when we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources.
In this episode, I speak with Reena, a TV producer, podcast host, and mompreneur, about her earliest memories of experiencing both social connection and disconnection in schools, as well as both shock and ultimately the push she needed to find her own voice. We talk about her career in TV and entertainment including working as a producer on the Jerry Springer show, and her journey toward starting her own podcast, Better Call Daddy. We also discuss what it means to raise children who aren’t afraid to assert themselves, while not harming relationships and friendships along the way. This is a vulnerable conversation packed with lots of hidden gems about finding your way…that you definitely don’t want to miss.
Here’s our edited conversation.
Auto-generated Transcript
Accessibility Disclaimer: Below is a computer generated transcript of our conversation. Please note that there are likely very many errors––including the spelling of our names––and may not make sense, especially when taken out of context.
00:00:03:09 – 00:00:26:21
Speaker 1
Hi, I’m Ray. Growing up, I felt like the education system wasn’t built for people like me to succeed. As a student with undiagnosed neurodivergent learning disabilities and anxiety, I struggled to learn in the ways my peers learned. In the decades following, I became an educator and taught in various classrooms around the world. I taught in public schools, private universities, large government funded programs, and small academies.
00:00:26:23 – 00:00:49:20
Speaker 1
I design curriculum, measured student success, and even assessed teacher efficacy. Then, while teaching a group of English language learners in South Korea who, like me, hadn’t received adequate attention in school or at home, I realized I was using the same methodologies as the ones that had failed me. Homeroom is my attempt to remedy this on an international scale.
00:00:49:22 – 00:01:22:15
Speaker 1
To speak with as many people from around the world about their own education systems. To rethink what schools can be, what it should be. When we design systems and metrics which are inclusive of more diverse types of learners and thinkers, with varying levels of family involvement and access to resources. In this episode, I speak with Reena, a TV producer, podcast host and mom Preneur, about her earliest memories of experiencing both social connection and disconnection in schools, as well as both the shock and ultimately the push she needed to find her own voice.
00:01:22:17 – 00:01:48:22
Speaker 1
We talk about her career in TV and entertainment, including working as a producer on the Jerry Springer Show and her journey towards starting her own podcast, Better Call Daddy. We also discuss what it means to raise children who aren’t afraid to assert themselves, while not harming relationships and friendships along the way. This is a vulnerable conversation, packed with lots of hidden gems about finding your way that you definitely don’t want to miss.
00:01:49:00 – 00:01:52:10
Speaker 1
Here is our edited conversation.
00:01:52:12 – 00:02:13:14
Speaker 2
What’s so interesting is after I just recently listened to some of your podcast, I reached out to one of my teachers and I’m going to catch up. I’m like, yes, with a high school teacher tomorrow who I had for four years, and I listened to one of her episodes where I forgot his name, but he talked about how a teacher took a special interest in him.
00:02:13:14 – 00:02:15:04
Speaker 2
And this teacher. I feel like.
00:02:15:06 – 00:02:16:15
Speaker 1
She.
00:02:16:17 – 00:02:28:18
Speaker 2
Took a special interest in me. And I mean, I would have never completed four years of a youth performing arts high school if it wasn’t for this teacher.
00:02:28:19 – 00:02:51:03
Speaker 3
And yesterday was her birthday. So I was like, hey, happy birthday. Haven’t talked to you since 2016. I was listening to a podcast. Yes. And it was about a teacher who made a difference in someone else’s life. And I just wanted to tell you that you made a difference in my life. And I would just love to grab coffee with you and hear how your life has been.
00:02:51:05 – 00:02:54:14
Speaker 3
She was like, whoa, what an amazing compliment.
00:02:54:14 – 00:02:59:00
Speaker 2
And I, you know, I think she was really taken aback by that and how awesome that we.
00:02:59:00 – 00:03:01:00
Speaker 3
Were connected on Facebook. I mean, we haven’t.
00:03:01:00 – 00:03:24:02
Speaker 2
Really had that many interactions since high school. My God, I mean, I’ve graduated and what year is 97? So it’s been a while since I’ve seen her. And another amazing part of this is so I went to a youth performing arts school for high school, and I didn’t get in on the first try. And so part.
00:03:24:02 – 00:03:26:22
Speaker 3
Of me being able to get in was getting a music.
00:03:26:22 – 00:03:36:17
Speaker 2
Teacher that could help me learn how to read music and learn how to pluck out all of the sheet music that I would have to sing. And you know, I needed a vocal coach.
00:03:36:17 – 00:03:39:20
Speaker 3
Like I had a passion for singing and I love to sing.
00:03:39:20 – 00:03:58:23
Speaker 2
But actually, after I auditioned for this school, like, and I didn’t get in on the first try, it really crushed something in me where I didn’t feel as comfortable singing out. And then for four years, I just wanted to blend in and I always was like, oh my God, don’t call on me. I don’t want to have to sing in front of the whole class.
00:03:58:23 – 00:04:13:11
Speaker 2
And this also applies to kind of how I was as a reader. I was always hoping that I didn’t get called on by the teacher to read. I was a late bloomer when it came to reading. I saw my mom reading things like.
00:04:13:11 – 00:04:19:19
Speaker 3
Danielle Steel, you know, romance novels, but nothing too intellectual.
00:04:19:19 – 00:04:49:02
Speaker 2
And she still loves reading that kind of stuff. Now she’s gotten into some murder mysteries and we can relate on that. But I didn’t really get into reading a lot until I was an adult, and I don’t push my kids to read too. I think some kids just take an interest in it and they love it. I have four children and none of them are like voracious readers, but they see me and my husband reading all the time.
00:04:49:02 – 00:05:08:06
Speaker 2
And also as a kid, like I felt pressure to like, finish a book before I started another one. And now I’m like, I’m reading ten things at once, and I’m constantly going to the library or people are sending me books, or people are giving me book recommendations that I love to read. I can read a book and a.
00:05:08:06 – 00:05:12:13
Speaker 3
Day or two now.
00:05:12:15 – 00:05:19:15
Speaker 1
Wait, so how did that change? Like when did you actually start to enjoy reading?
00:05:19:17 – 00:05:20:11
Speaker 2
It wasn’t until.
00:05:20:11 – 00:05:28:14
Speaker 3
Recently it really wasn’t. Probably, honestly, until I got married. And my husband is super into reading.
00:05:28:19 – 00:05:42:16
Speaker 2
He’s always been a reader since he was a kid. He said he was always carrying books around, even whether he read them or not. He was fascinated by books, so he kind of turned me on to that, which is a good habit.
00:05:42:18 – 00:05:57:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And like, so when you were receiving that messaging, early on about, you have to finish one book before you start another one. Were those like fiction? Was it like text books? What kind of books were those and who was giving you that message?
00:05:57:22 – 00:06:24:18
Speaker 2
I feel like I got that message maybe in school and books just seemed like a requirement. I feel like growing up, I wasn’t really encouraged to pick books that I would like, and then I didn’t really find books I liked. And that’s why I try to encourage my kids, like whenever they have a free choice at school, I’m like, you can read whatever you want if you’ll read it.
00:06:24:20 – 00:06:25:12
Speaker 2
And so.
00:06:25:14 – 00:06:28:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, oh, my daughter just picked a.
00:06:28:10 – 00:06:35:21
Speaker 2
Book and she’s like, I can’t believe my teachers read this. And she’s like, when I’m done reading this, I want you to read this. I’m like, I will.
00:06:35:21 – 00:06:39:16
Speaker 3
That’s cool.
00:06:39:18 – 00:06:53:13
Speaker 1
That’s awesome. So yeah, I mean, like, what kind? I’m so fascinated by, that you went to a youth performing, high school performance art, performing arts, high school.
00:06:53:13 – 00:06:56:00
Speaker 2
Youth performing arts school? Yeah.
00:06:56:02 – 00:06:57:18
Speaker 1
How is that a cause? That was for.
00:06:57:18 – 00:07:20:09
Speaker 2
High school and I feel like I should go back even a little bit before that. So kindergarten through fifth grade, I went to, like, a Jewish private school, and I was the only, there was one other girl in my class for six years. And it was like a boy heavy year. And, you know, we were friends.
00:07:20:09 – 00:07:36:00
Speaker 2
But after six years of only having one girlfriend, I begged my parents to go to public school. I was like, I need more friends. Where I think a small classroom is good for personalized attention, which I needed a lot of. I always.
00:07:36:00 – 00:07:38:01
Speaker 3
Like, wanted to ask a zillion.
00:07:38:01 – 00:07:39:06
Speaker 2
Questions.
00:07:39:07 – 00:07:40:02
Speaker 3
00:07:40:04 – 00:08:02:02
Speaker 2
I wanted to be friends with the people in my neighborhood, and I did want to kind of, I don’t know if the word is assimilate or just have other friends. I was always very like naturally social, kind of like my dad. And I just felt like I was kind of missing that at the school that I was at.
00:08:02:02 – 00:08:13:12
Speaker 2
But when I entered public school, it was very eye opening. It’s kind of like when I went from college to Jerry Springer.
00:08:13:14 – 00:08:13:19
Speaker 1
There was.
00:08:13:22 – 00:08:20:03
Speaker 3
My gosh, I did not know about the world. So so many.
00:08:20:03 – 00:08:49:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like some of the things I remember were like, okay, kids were hooking up with each other at a very young age, and there was even a girl, like in my class who was pregnant in seventh grade, maybe even sixth grade, actually, there was like a whole pregnancy high school down the street from where I grew up. I ended up working on an MTV show there that was called like Pregnancy High.
00:08:49:14 – 00:09:11:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I was definitely not doing any of those things. And when I started going to parties and I saw people hooking up, I was feeling very awkward and, out of place. And then too, like, I definitely felt like an outsider as far as people came up to me and, like, kept asking me, like, what are you?
00:09:11:16 – 00:09:23:12
Speaker 2
You know, they’re like, are you Italian or are you Hispanic? It was like a guessing game. And then it was like everything that they asked me, what are you? I just wanted to be what they were asking.
00:09:23:13 – 00:09:24:14
Speaker 3
Oh no.
00:09:24:14 – 00:09:46:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. I definitely was like not proud to be Jewish. Definitely wanted to like tuck my Jewish star in for me like being Jewish was like I grew up with all four of my grandparents in Kentucky like, and had relationships with them. And it was like a big part of who they were. It was something that they valued.
00:09:46:20 – 00:10:09:14
Speaker 2
And I was like, wow, like, why is it so important to them? And so I wanted to understand that because I loved them and they were a big part of my life. Like my mom had me young, my parents had me young. I grew up with all four of my grandparents. I knew many of my great grandparents, and so that became a big part of my journey.
00:10:09:16 – 00:10:14:00
Speaker 2
Kind of like figuring all that out. Yeah.
00:10:14:02 – 00:10:39:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s oh my gosh, I had no. So yeah, this entire time I thought, you’re based in LA. And I really thought that you I know that I heard you talk about moving to LA, but I didn’t know where you moved from. And so, I was just, like, curious, like where you grew up. And so, and I know that you also, like, traveled a lot, and you moved around a lot.
00:10:39:23 – 00:10:47:04
Speaker 1
So, you grew up, you did most of your compulsory education in Kentucky or did you also move states?
00:10:47:06 – 00:11:04:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I actually lived in this same house, and my parents still live in that house like my entire life. Other than, like when they first got married, I think they lived in an apartment, like down the street for like a year that my mom, and was burned down by accident. But.
00:11:04:22 – 00:11:08:17
Speaker 3
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So they have been in.
00:11:08:17 – 00:11:27:00
Speaker 2
The house that I grew up in and they’re still in, and my room still looks the same as like fifth grade with like the into the wall. And I love going back there because I have memories, like walking into my room or driving by my grandparents house or, you know, my my mom’s parents still live in Kentucky too.
00:11:27:00 – 00:11:29:06
Speaker 3
So yeah.
00:11:29:09 – 00:11:57:16
Speaker 2
I grew up there. And then after the middle school experience, I had definitely like experienced some bullying over name brand clothes, over breaking out early over, you know, not liking someone’s brother who liked me. And then she bullied me. And then the brother bullied me. And it was such a rude awakening that I just then told my parents, I’m like, there’s no way I’m going to go to my home high school.
00:11:57:16 – 00:11:59:21
Speaker 2
Like I.
00:11:59:23 – 00:12:00:05
Speaker 3
Need.
00:12:00:05 – 00:12:04:23
Speaker 2
To go to like a magnet school and audition somewhere because these are not my people.
00:12:04:23 – 00:12:07:12
Speaker 3
Like.
00:12:07:14 – 00:12:09:09
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
00:12:09:12 – 00:12:22:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. I did not do well even. I mean, I got into the advanced program, but like, I feel like I was definitely more focused on just getting good grades, not learning any of the material and surviving.
00:12:22:15 – 00:12:48:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, you know what I hear often? So, like, there’s like a huge homeschooling movement, and I’ve always known about it, but I know it’s gaining popularity. And I think one of the arguments is to like, how are they going to socialize? Right? How like, that’s kind of one of the biggest arguments against homeschooling.
00:12:48:12 – 00:13:38:13
Speaker 1
And I’m just like, you know, these people who have this argument, like, have completely normalized, like either dangerous or risky or, scary behavior, right? And, and bullying behavior. And think that like, the microcosm or the macrocosm. However you think of it, of school is like, you know, a healthy socialization experience. And I want to hear more about, like, that experience of, like, being bullied, of, like, that for, like, being shamed for not having name brand clothing, like, these are all very scary things to be told or, to other you.
00:13:38:16 – 00:14:11:04
Speaker 1
Right. And I’m curious, like, and it’s such an impressionable age when you’re still forming, like, your brain connections and maturing and, you know, I’m curious, like, what kind of impact that had on you. I know eventually you’re like, I don’t want to be here anymore. And so you did go to a different school. But I’m curious, like, if there are any remnants of that now, like in your adult life or, how long that you carried those kinds of scars, I guess, into your life.
00:14:11:06 – 00:14:16:03
Speaker 2
That’s such a great question. Because I still feel like I revert.
00:14:16:03 – 00:14:20:21
Speaker 3
Back to that now when adults also can bully you.
00:14:20:21 – 00:14:29:20
Speaker 2
And I’m like, oh my God, this is like really bringing up, like, feelings of me not being able to tell people how I really felt.
00:14:29:22 – 00:14:31:10
Speaker 3
00:14:31:12 – 00:14:50:21
Speaker 2
Because if I would have stood up to the bully, that would have been fuel to her fire, like there was nothing I could have said to her that was going to help me win. Like she used to chase me home from school. I had a friend. I’m still friends with her now who was like, you can get off at my bus stop, wait till she goes home, and then you can walk home.
00:14:50:21 – 00:14:56:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, like for pretty much a year or two. I did that, and one.
00:14:56:13 – 00:14:59:08
Speaker 3
Time I finally got the guts to, like, scream.
00:14:59:08 – 00:15:02:06
Speaker 2
At her back. And I was like, you.
00:15:02:06 – 00:15:07:18
Speaker 3
Redneck by its usage. Yeah, that’s.
00:15:07:20 – 00:15:26:19
Speaker 2
And she came running from, like, two blocks and and it’s funny because I was shaking, putting my key in the door and I got my key in the door just in time. Got in my house, shut the door, and she was pounding on the door. And now I’ve actually been having like, a neighbor problem in my adulthood.
00:15:26:21 – 00:15:28:14
Speaker 3
Where my.
00:15:28:14 – 00:15:57:09
Speaker 2
Neighbor has been letting her dog go to the bathroom in our yard for the last 11 months, she has trained her dog to only go in our yard, and it’s a very small walk space, like it’s crazy. And it went from her to leaving the poo in our yard to letting her dog have free rein and like, not be on a leash, to leaving bags like where she doesn’t dispose of it for a week straight and there’s flies.
00:15:57:09 – 00:16:20:05
Speaker 2
I mean, it is the craziest thing. And I finally, after months of this and after calling animal control and after calling the police and like it’s crazy, I got the guts to say to her, please stop trespassing. That’s literally all I said. And from me saying that she called me every name in the book. She hung up a sign calling me a deplorable racist Nazi.
00:16:20:05 – 00:16:23:08
Speaker 2
Karen.
00:16:23:10 – 00:16:25:01
Speaker 3
And I was like, okay, I’m just.
00:16:25:01 – 00:16:41:17
Speaker 2
Not going to say anything else. I mean, I know she’s moving and like basically saying something back. I have seen in both instances, but it reminds me, one reminds me of the other, that standing up to people that clearly have, like, I don’t know, something that’s happened to them.
00:16:41:17 – 00:16:42:15
Speaker 3
In their own lives.
00:16:42:15 – 00:16:50:13
Speaker 2
Is not going to get me anywhere. But it is so painful for me. Like it literally has affected my mental health, where.
00:16:50:15 – 00:16:51:13
Speaker 3
00:16:51:15 – 00:16:59:10
Speaker 2
I have to, like, tell myself off. Do not let this person ruin your day to day.
00:16:59:12 – 00:17:00:16
Speaker 3
00:17:00:18 – 00:17:01:08
Speaker 1
That is so.
00:17:01:08 – 00:17:02:06
Speaker 3
Tough.
00:17:02:08 – 00:17:14:11
Speaker 1
That is so, so tough. I mean, I think about, like, And I’m curious, like, were you able to tell your parents about, this bully? Yeah.
00:17:14:11 – 00:17:36:20
Speaker 2
And my dad remembers it differently than I do, which is so funny. You remember things that he went to that house and, like, told the dad to, like, you know, tell the kids to leave me alone. I’m like, I don’t remember that ever happening because it never. That’s the things sometimes if you even say, like, please stop doing this or, you know, like, please be a decent human being.
00:17:36:20 – 00:17:41:07
Speaker 3
Like, that doesn’t work. You know what I mean?
00:17:41:09 – 00:18:07:22
Speaker 2
I don’t know what works. Some people are just not nice. And truthfully, that family that did that, like the brother who was. He was a bully, too. He ended up in prison for ten years for armed robbery. And the sister was part of a prostitution ring. The parents got divorced. I mean, they had plenty of drama in their own family.
00:18:08:00 – 00:18:08:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:18:08:20 – 00:18:10:15
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:18:10:17 – 00:18:43:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I have had issues with bullying my entire school career. And I talked about this on another podcast. I’ll share it with you in the future. But it’s so tough when like somebody is ruining your life or is, you know, making you shrink, into, like, such a small place and, like, you can’t really, because we’re so young, we don’t know.
00:18:43:02 – 00:19:09:13
Speaker 1
We don’t have the faculties to deal with that. We don’t know how to regulate. And so it becomes a part of us and like, it really pushes up, pushes us up against, like a very narrow wall. And we live that way, you know, and it like, it has impacted so much of my life and not being able to like, fight back or, anything like that.
00:19:09:13 – 00:19:33:12
Speaker 1
So I’m wondering for you, I think it’s so amazing that you went to a youth performing arts school where you were able to voice some of, like, you know, the the power in your voice. But I’m wondering, like, I know you were scared of being called on and like, you didn’t want to sing and things like that.
00:19:33:12 – 00:19:47:06
Speaker 1
But I’m curious, what kind of tools did your teachers give you or strategies that they gave you to sort of like, own your voice and be comfortable in using your voice?
00:19:47:08 – 00:19:54:14
Speaker 2
That’s such a great question. And not only do I attribute it to this teacher, but.
00:19:54:16 – 00:19:56:19
Speaker 3
Nicole Scherzinger has become super.
00:19:56:19 – 00:20:21:12
Speaker 2
Famous, also affirmed me like she saw me not sing out for years and the last day of college. When or high school when all the colleges came there was like an audition day where you could sing for a bunch of these different art schools and she sat in the front row. I will never forget this and just bobbed her head to me, singing.
00:20:21:12 – 00:20:43:20
Speaker 2
And she told me beforehand in the music closet, like, this is the day Rihanna you have blended in. You have made it through the program for four years. I am going to sit in the front row and sing out today like you could get a scholarship. And I got two offers to two small art schools, and I ended up taking the one that wanted me more because I really wanted to be wanted.
00:20:43:22 – 00:20:44:16
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:20:44:18 – 00:20:45:18
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:20:45:20 – 00:20:46:22
Speaker 2
It was, oh.
00:20:46:22 – 00:20:48:06
Speaker 3
My gosh.
00:20:48:08 – 00:21:13:06
Speaker 2
I’ll never forget it. And I would say the biggest tool is if you can be in a firmer for someone and encourager for someone if, if there are people that continually are showing up on your social media and they like your content, or they send you things that you know they’re thinking of you when they see the content, drop them a voice note, give them some love back.
00:21:13:06 – 00:21:29:18
Speaker 2
I mean, that is so powerful. That has happened again and again, like through my podcast is I keep finding more of my people and that is fuel to keep someone going today. Here’s another crazy example. There’s a lady at.
00:21:29:18 – 00:21:34:16
Speaker 3
The gym and there’s like a little cafe in the gym, and she’s a mom and I’m a mom, and she.
00:21:34:16 – 00:21:47:03
Speaker 2
Sees my kids coming up and getting drinks and treats and stuff, and she also sees like that after I do a half hour or a 40 minute workout that I want to get myself a chai latte, I’m like, earned that.
00:21:47:06 – 00:21:49:15
Speaker 3
You know, I’ll see you in 40 minutes. Like so.
00:21:49:15 – 00:22:26:16
Speaker 2
We’ve gotten into conversations a lot, and I’ve told her about the neighbor situation and, and, and today she really opened up to me and she was like, I’m a single mom and one of my kids is on disability, and her kid actually worked at the cafe. I never would have even realized that her kid had a disability and she started crying and like, opening up to me and telling me that she’s never accepted help and that she works around the clock to take care of her children and that her husband got murdered.
00:22:26:16 – 00:22:34:07
Speaker 2
And oh my God, she was in complete tears. And I was like, oh my God, I feel like.
00:22:34:09 – 00:22:40:21
Speaker 3
But for me, having shared how this neighbor is giving me mental health problems and little struggles in my life.
00:22:40:23 – 00:22:59:21
Speaker 2
Then she totally opened up and I was like, I wish I could help you more. And she was like, you are helping me just even by listening to this, because my own family has heard it and they react differently, like you’re just a completely unbiased person. That’s hearing it for the first time. I was like, well, I can’t wait to hear more of it.
00:22:59:21 – 00:23:04:07
Speaker 2
And here’s some organizations that you should reach out to. You.
00:23:04:09 – 00:23:30:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And you know, Reena, like when you talk about that tool of like being in a firmer for someone, I feel like you are such a master at that. I think, you know, of all the people that I have spoken to who know you like the one common denominator like that, everybody says is that you are like a social network or you are a connector.
00:23:30:14 – 00:23:58:09
Speaker 1
You are a master class in, connecting with people. And, you know, whenever I listen to you talk to people on your podcast or, just you have a way of, like, disarming people of, like, allowing people to share their stories in such a way where there’s, like, no judgment. And like, you also don’t make it, like, burdensome.
00:23:58:09 – 00:24:20:21
Speaker 1
Like there are some people who, like, really want to help, in a way that can be a little invasive. And I don’t know what you do. It’s just you open up a space and you allow somebody to just sort of like, come into the space and you share in that space in a very equal kind of way.
00:24:20:23 – 00:24:44:11
Speaker 1
And, I think you do such a great job of, like, affirming people, even just like with me, like I spoke to you once and you have made so many introductions, like to people like it’s so quick for you, you’re just like, oh my gosh, I thought of you. I’m going to do this thing. It takes you ten, 15 minutes and you just get it out.
00:24:44:11 – 00:25:14:08
Speaker 1
And I’m just like, how does she have this time and energy and then also like this generosity to do that for people. So when you talk about this tool, I just want to say like it definitely affirms me. It definitely feels like I’m doing something important in the world. It feels like this person cares about me, cares about my success, and like you do that tenfold in in your life, I think.
00:25:14:10 – 00:25:27:11
Speaker 1
And so when you talk about that tool, I think it’s a very good tool and a great strategy. So thank you for sharing that. But also doing that in the world so many times over.
00:25:27:15 – 00:25:49:09
Speaker 2
I love that you see that. I actually have another intro for you today. I had a podcaster reach out to me. She’s a mom. Pedals of support. She’s looking for gas for her next season. And I immediately thought of you. That’s the thing. If you immediately think of someone or if you immediately have an idea, just act on it.
00:25:49:09 – 00:26:14:16
Speaker 2
I mean, as a mom of four, as an entrepreneur, as a wife, as a sister has a daughter. Like, if I have an idea, I just act on it immediately. What’s the worst thing that can happen? But if you don’t act on it immediately, it’s just going to get shelved. I mean, I have so many things that are shelved to you, but it’s like the people that you connect to and that you vibe with and that you think of an opportunity for.
00:26:14:18 – 00:26:36:15
Speaker 2
Even my dad yesterday, someone called him totally out of the blue, 96 years old. He knew my grandfather and he was like, I want to share with you a story that I remembered about your dad. And I was like, I love that he just did that. And how sweet. You know, that’s very special. And then he was like, yeah.
00:26:36:15 – 00:26:56:16
Speaker 2
His son produced Mad Men and also starred in it. I was like, what? I was like, give me that guy’s number. Not only do I want to hear the story about my grandfather, but I want to in a I want to interview that guy. So immediately I got his number. I’m probably going to call him tomorrow. And that’s just how I work.
00:26:56:16 – 00:27:17:02
Speaker 2
Like these are little whispers from the universe. Another thing that happened this week, too, that’s pretty cool and again, is kind of like affirming is a woman had reached out to me like a year ago. This is only happened a couple times. And, you know, she’s an author of like 40 plus books. She actually went to a school that my sister ended up studying at.
00:27:17:04 – 00:27:42:11
Speaker 2
She had an eating disorder, which I totally relate to. I had some eating disorder issues, and she liked the theme of my show, so she reached out like a year ago. I added her on social media, but I don’t get back to everybody. He reaches out. Right? So then I’m like, at a birthday party with my five year old, talking to the other mommies in the pool, and I was talking about how I’m trying to find my place within this new community that we’ve moved twice within the past couple of years.
00:27:42:17 – 00:27:51:00
Speaker 2
And I’m looking for, like, inspirational women or content that’s happening in the community. She’s like, that’s funny. There’s a speaker here tonight. I was like, really? Send me the flier.
00:27:51:02 – 00:27:53:07
Speaker 3
It’s this woman that literally.
00:27:53:07 – 00:28:13:09
Speaker 2
Reached out to me a year ago. She lives in Baltimore, and I think Israel and she’s in freakin Houston for the night. So it was my son’s birthday. We go out for like a birthday dinner, and the dinner does not finish until, like, the time the event is starting. So I literally did not get there until 820. And I’m like, should I even go?
00:28:13:09 – 00:28:28:19
Speaker 2
I don’t know how to get in the gate. I don’t have anyone to sit with. I was just like, this stuff never happened. So I got in the car, I went, I found my way through the gate. Her son was actually working the door. They welcomed me. And here’s another thing the whole community was like a lot more religious than me.
00:28:28:19 – 00:28:35:07
Speaker 2
I did not have my hair covered. I really wasn’t dressed the same way as everybody else, but I was like, I’m here for inspiration.
00:28:35:07 – 00:28:37:22
Speaker 3
You know what I mean? So I sat in the back, I listened.
00:28:37:22 – 00:29:02:09
Speaker 2
To her talk, and I got a little bit of the backstory. I missed some of the backstory, but I ended up buying her memoir about two kids, two kids books, and I’m like, now I definitely want to have that chick on my podcast, you know? And even though I haven’t had her on my podcast yet, I felt like being able to tell her that story of like, hey, I know you reached out and you liked the theme of my show.
00:29:02:09 – 00:29:06:07
Speaker 2
That was cool of you. I liked your speech. I’m going to support you by buying some books.
00:29:06:10 – 00:29:08:17
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:29:08:18 – 00:29:44:00
Speaker 1
Wow. I mean, it’s such a small world, right? In many ways. And I when you talk about, like, finding your people and networking, I think there really is a timing, for everything. Oh, yeah. You know, like, there are people that I remember being introduced to or connecting with, but never really hitting it off, I guess, or making the time to, like, connect with and then like months go by or even years go by or even a decade goes by and, somehow, like your worlds align again.
00:29:44:00 – 00:30:19:10
Speaker 1
And for some reason, every thing connects where you’re like, oh my gosh, why does this feel like divine intervention? Why does it feel like I need to talk to you now? So yeah, I totally can connect with that. And I think, you know, these people get placed in your life for a reason. And I never really know what that reason is, but, I know that, I mean, yeah, that that I think that divine intervention is really part of it.
00:30:19:12 – 00:30:39:17
Speaker 1
And so I kind of want to ask you about, like, I kind of want to talk about this a little bit more about, like, the connection piece. But before that, I wanted to fill in the little bit of detail of your own backstory of like, I know you, moved around a lot. Kentucky, LA, Houston, at least that I know of.
00:30:39:19 – 00:31:02:07
Speaker 1
And I’m just and I know that we recently kind of chatted about how every time you’ve moved, you were able to sort of rebrand yourself in a kind of way. And I’m wondering, like going back to that piece of being affirmed by Nicole Scherzinger. And like you getting that scholarship and you going to the school that wanted you the most.
00:31:02:07 – 00:31:23:20
Speaker 1
And, I’m wondering about that journey of you opening up. Right. About, like, being able to rebrand yourself every single time you moved on. What were you rebranding from or what were sort of like the shifting values, about who you wanted your identity to be?
00:31:23:22 – 00:31:37:19
Speaker 2
I feel like so much of the rebrand has been like fitting into the Jewish community. I mean, even when I went to West Virginia, which is where I took the singing scholarship to, it was the University of Charleston. I was the only.
00:31:37:19 – 00:31:40:10
Speaker 3
Jewish girl again at the whole college.
00:31:40:10 – 00:32:09:17
Speaker 2
And then I think the next year there was like a guy that came and he was in the choir, and he was Jewish, too. And I was like, oh, amazing, like another Jew. But again, it was like going from Kentucky where people were asking, what are you to West Virginia? Where again, I was being asked that and I took I think I took a part time teaching position, like teaching Sunday school at a synagogue.
00:32:09:17 – 00:32:28:19
Speaker 2
And then I sang in their choir, too, and then they contributed to, like, my singing scholarship. And that was cool because I ended up connecting with people in the community there. And also the guy who recruited me to the program at the University of Charleston and Doctor Horne Baker. I need to catch up with that guy, too. We’re also connected on Facebook.
00:32:28:21 – 00:32:52:14
Speaker 2
He took a special interest in me as well. I think he was a actually a little disappointed when I chose to transfer to Purdue, but I kind of got into some trouble and partied and also realized that I didn’t love the stage. And I think that you can love to sing and love to perform and love music and feel moved by it.
00:32:52:16 – 00:33:23:19
Speaker 2
And not everyone is cut out for putting on a show. And so that was me, and I actually went from the University of Charleston to transferring to Purdue because I met a guy that was I was a double major and vocal music and sports med. And then I met a guy that was in the sports med department at Purdue, and he was like, if you actually want to do this, you should come to like a Big Ten university because you’ll be more successful that way.
00:33:23:21 – 00:33:58:04
Speaker 2
I ended up transferring to Purdue and like, organic chemistry, kicked my butt. And I took a job on campus at an NPR station, which was amazing that that even happened. It was, again, like kind of walking in there telling them that I wanted to work in radio. And then somebody was like leaving the station at that time. So speaking of divine intervention and timing, I took a 5 a.m. shift job at the radio station while I was a student, and I used to load all of the weekend features, and this was like pre automation.
00:33:58:04 – 00:34:23:04
Speaker 2
So I learned how to program the radio station, run the audio board and at night or early in the morning, I would record myself singing over like Beyonce or songs that I loved. And I created mixtapes of me, like reading the newscast and kind of editing them in my own way. And I like felt like I was in my element there.
00:34:23:06 – 00:34:48:21
Speaker 2
And so I thought I wanted to work in radio, and that all began at Purdue. And then I went to the alumni office at Purdue. They got me an interview at WGN in Chicago. And so I drove from Indiana to Chicago, interviewed at WGN, didn’t get the job, and saw that Jerry Springer was looking for interns in this same courtyard on this same trip.
00:34:48:23 – 00:34:56:01
Speaker 2
And so I walked over to NBC tower, got through security and ended up starting there two weeks later.
00:34:56:03 – 00:35:00:02
Speaker 1
Oh, wait, I thought Jerry Springer was based in L.A. now.
00:35:00:02 – 00:35:01:13
Speaker 2
Chicago? Yeah.
00:35:01:18 – 00:35:03:05
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
00:35:03:05 – 00:35:28:10
Speaker 2
Yes. So that’s where my career really began. And, it was quite the time to work there pre-Internet. That was when people were actually calling in to the show with their stories and as an intern, I was taking the guests around town and really seeing what made a good story. Who were the producers on the phone that were getting people to do wild and crazy things?
00:35:28:10 – 00:35:48:13
Speaker 2
And I started like emulating those people. And I think, too, since I started off as an intern, and then I got on the phones and then I was able to start booking the stories. And since I was from Kentucky and these stories weren’t that far fetched from stories I had heard growing up, I just didn’t really judge the people.
00:35:48:15 – 00:36:03:23
Speaker 2
And I think, truthfully, that’s why I rose the rank so quickly is because I was like, okay, lift your shirt. I love my shirt to you. You know, I was like, willing to share my craziness and they were willing to share theirs. And I really think that’s even what makes a good friendship.
00:36:03:23 – 00:36:09:21
Speaker 3
That’s what makes a good partnership. That’s what makes a good relationship, is like being willing to get vulnerable.
00:36:09:21 – 00:36:13:00
Speaker 2
And share your shit.
00:36:13:02 – 00:36:58:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure. You know, actually, so I’ve kind of been wondering about this experience. And I love that you’re talking about, like, that vulnerability piece that, that that’s really what, you know, connects people. And I’m wondering when you were younger, I know that your dad wanted to go into entertainment. And so, you know, I was wondering, like, what kind of messaging you were receiving from, like, your parents or even your teachers, either at the Jewish school or, you know, in, in the public school that you went to for middle school, like, do you know what your strengths were then?
00:36:58:02 – 00:37:01:01
Speaker 1
And like, no, you’re shaking your head.
00:37:01:01 – 00:37:02:06
Speaker 2
No, definitely not.
00:37:02:06 – 00:37:03:11
Speaker 1
Like, what kind of messaging?
00:37:03:15 – 00:37:38:15
Speaker 2
It’s funny because I look through my high school yearbook and I was like, reading the notes that people wrote to me and so many people. It’s interesting, said, like, you should be more confident. Oh, wow. Yeah. I was not. I think that I wanted to be liked and I wanted to fit in like so many. And I had aunts who were this is crazy, but like naturally thin.
00:37:38:15 – 00:37:52:23
Speaker 2
And I had a sister, a younger sister who is naturally thinner than me. And I was always curvy. And, you know, Jewish family is just like Italian families. They love to feed you. And that’s how I bonded with my grandmother.
00:37:53:01 – 00:38:02:18
Speaker 3
You know, if I didn’t need her feed, it was like offensive. I’m like, okay, but you’re also calling me curvy. So like, that’s a mixed message. And yeah, you know, when I went to.
00:38:02:18 – 00:38:29:16
Speaker 2
College and I saw these girls, like, puking in the bathroom who liked to eat, I was like, oh my God, you can eat what you want and then get rid of it and be skinny. And I learned that in college and did that to the point of like, blacking out. And my sister caught me doing that when I came home from college, and she was like, I’m going to tell you.
00:38:29:17 – 00:38:30:10
Speaker 3
So.
00:38:30:12 – 00:39:00:06
Speaker 2
So that kind of snapped me out of it. But I definitely suffered from perfectionism and wanting to have a perfect body and wanting to sound like other singers who were praised and it’s been a real journey and like being happy with where I’m at and counting my blessings and loving myself.
00:39:00:08 – 00:39:29:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, that is such, there’s so much to some of these vignettes of stories that you’re telling me that I can so relate to, and the one that really rings true is this idea of, like, not being confident. I’ve been in therapy for very long time, for, for, like, my low self-esteem and my perfectionism issues and low self-confidence and things like that.
00:39:29:15 – 00:39:56:14
Speaker 1
And, you know, when, when we, we’ve, like, unearthed a lot of, like, the sources of where that came from. And it all starts, you know, in our childhood and, I can locate it back to at least two sources for me. And I’m wondering for you, like, what do you think was where do you think you got that messaging?
00:39:56:16 – 00:40:10:04
Speaker 1
You know, like from from the outside that you are not enough, you know, that you needed to be something different or something better than who you were.
00:40:10:06 – 00:40:11:14
Speaker 2
It’s such a tough question.
00:40:11:14 – 00:40:14:01
Speaker 3
Because,
00:40:14:03 – 00:40:34:04
Speaker 2
Like, when things happen later in your life that trigger those feelings and you’re like, oh, wait, I’ve been here before. But like as a kid, you don’t even realize that. Except for like when I remember going shopping a bunch with my grandmother and her being like, you know, your cousin has, like, such a perfect body. She can wear whatever she wants.
00:40:34:04 – 00:40:39:15
Speaker 2
Stuff like that, you know? Or look at all these clothes I got for your aunt.
00:40:39:15 – 00:40:46:19
Speaker 3
And here’s the couple I got for you. Like stuff like that, you know?
00:40:46:21 – 00:41:08:04
Speaker 2
And now, like, I love my grandma, you know, we have a special relationship. But now that she has, like, Alzheimer’s or whatever, you know, she’s like, not able to communicate in the same way. I’m not even sure what she has if it’s dementia or Alzheimer’s. And it’s hard to tell the difference. But this is going to sound crazy.
00:41:08:06 – 00:41:30:12
Speaker 2
A piece of me was like, wow, I can now visit without having to worry about, comments. Yeah, I felt relief when that ended. I mean, I miss being able to talk to her for hours at a time, but now she just holds my hand and she’s like, I love you so much, and you’re one of my favorite people in the world.
00:41:30:13 – 00:41:34:06
Speaker 2
And I’m like, ooh, I’m so glad I like, overcame the,
00:41:34:08 – 00:41:48:22
Speaker 3
I got you a size 16 bathing suit or whatever. I’m like, I’m not that, but. That’s the thing. Like, they’d be so off. But I was like, wow, you know?
00:41:49:00 – 00:41:49:12
Speaker 1
Oh, my.
00:41:49:12 – 00:41:49:23
Speaker 3
There was.
00:41:49:23 – 00:41:53:19
Speaker 2
Some. Really? Yeah. It’s crazy.
00:41:53:21 – 00:41:55:16
Speaker 3
00:41:55:18 – 00:42:00:16
Speaker 2
There, I think some of those messages were definitely from my family.
00:42:00:18 – 00:42:31:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure. I think, you know, that’s actually unearthing shaking loose for me. Like some of those ideas too. Yeah. I was a very chunky little kid. And I’m trying not to, like, you know, I guess perpetuate that with my own daughter. But, yeah, I, I do. I am a little scared because she loves to eat, and I swear she eats, like, 10% more than I do at every meal.
00:42:31:05 – 00:42:59:06
Speaker 1
And she’s only two. And I just, like I don’t know if this is normal and so I’m always a little afraid, but yeah, I think we that that comparison, plays such a big role in like perpetuating continuing that intergenerational trauma. So yeah, it’s really tough.
00:42:59:08 – 00:43:09:03
Speaker 2
Actually, I’m glad I brought up the daughter thing because I have one daughter and I felt so.
00:43:09:05 – 00:43:11:17
Speaker 3
Worried about,
00:43:11:18 – 00:43:33:23
Speaker 2
Even commenting like, you’re going to eat two donuts or you ate three pieces of pizza. Like I it’s like my own stuff I’m projecting on her. Like my daughter is, for goodness, like, very skinny and like, you know, we’re built differently. But I’m like, I just want you to know, like, I’m your mom, and you’re not gonna be able to eat like that forever.
00:43:34:01 – 00:43:37:02
Speaker 3
Like, that’s basically what I say.
00:43:37:04 – 00:43:51:14
Speaker 2
But even that, even that can make her look at herself differently. And I have to be really careful of that. I mean, there’s enough pressure in it, like TikTok and filters and I and all that.
00:43:51:16 – 00:43:53:23
Speaker 1
Gosh, I know.
00:43:54:01 – 00:43:54:23
Speaker 2
And it’s really tough.
00:43:55:00 – 00:43:56:00
Speaker 1
Such a crazy.
00:43:56:05 – 00:44:00:13
Speaker 2
Really tough on girls. You know, even with the right dance moves.
00:44:00:15 – 00:44:01:18
Speaker 3
I saw.
00:44:01:20 – 00:44:19:02
Speaker 2
I don’t know if this is like off topic, but I saw Angelina Jolie’s daughter, like doing this dance video and she’s really shown like the progression of how hard it is to dance these hip hop moves. That’s why I do it in the privacy of my own home and not going to classes.
00:44:19:04 – 00:44:21:06
Speaker 3
I mean, my daughter practice has made it at home.
00:44:21:06 – 00:44:41:13
Speaker 2
When she was a little Arab, and I would definitely not do that in public. And the comments of Angelina Jolie’s daughter were hurtful, too. I mean, I felt hurt by them, and I’m like, the moves that she was doing. Like I was like, proud of how hard of.
00:44:41:13 – 00:44:42:11
Speaker 3
An effort she was.
00:44:42:11 – 00:45:05:19
Speaker 2
Putting into it. Like, I feel like that should count for something. And, you know, I even connected with this guy on Twitter recently and he was like, hey, I he knew that I had like, collaborated on a couple music songs with another podcaster. I sang like a backup hook with Bruce Charm off. And so he sent me like an audition of him doing like a local voice competition.
00:45:05:21 – 00:45:24:23
Speaker 2
And this guy went freaking balls out. Like, I don’t even think I’ve ever gone balls out like that where he picked this like Eddie Vedder kind of Pearl jam song. It wasn’t it wasn’t Pearl jam, but he went all out, like the way that he went all in like that and sang his heart out. It brought me to tears.
00:45:25:04 – 00:45:40:06
Speaker 2
I was having a tough morning, and then he sent me this. It was like a round to you. He made it past the first round and he’s like, but you know, he’s like, I’m in my 40s and I’m a guy. And I was like, up against some hot chicks. But I was like, dude, I felt that I needed that.
00:45:40:06 – 00:45:43:11
Speaker 2
I loved that you brought me to tears. That was fantastic.
00:45:43:13 – 00:45:44:21
Speaker 3
And as much as, like.
00:45:44:21 – 00:45:46:04
Speaker 2
I love music, I don’t think I’ve.
00:45:46:04 – 00:45:52:20
Speaker 3
Ever gone out like that. I was like, that is freaking amazing. I want more of your music, send me more.
00:45:52:22 – 00:45:56:05
Speaker 1
Right? And what do you think is that difference?
00:45:56:11 – 00:45:57:02
Speaker 3
You just have to.
00:45:57:02 – 00:46:13:23
Speaker 2
Stop caring what people think. That’s the difference. And I have never gotten to that point, even in how I’m able to speak up for myself. I have never been like, you know what, I know I should not say this. I’m gonna freakin say it because I get close and then I get scared, I run.
00:46:14:01 – 00:46:44:09
Speaker 1
Yes, yes, I know what you’re saying. And I’m wondering, like, as we educate, like the next generation and I know we’re talking about our children, how do you think that we what we need to do? Like, what do we need to do? What do we need to say? What do we need to, think differently than, like, the generations past about, you know, being confident?
00:46:44:15 – 00:47:04:04
Speaker 1
Maybe not super, like, so confident that you’re, like, closed off from the world, but confident enough that you’re not minimizing who yourself. You’re who you are. And I guess, like preventing yourself from showing, like, your strengths and your talents to people.
00:47:04:06 – 00:47:15:16
Speaker 2
I think a big piece of it is just like asking your kids, like, do you know what lights you up? Like, do you know what you’re good at or complimenting like their efforts?
00:47:15:18 – 00:47:16:23
Speaker 3
00:47:17:01 – 00:47:41:09
Speaker 2
Like say like I have a son that’s done martial arts for two years. He’s like, yeah, I don’t really want to go to the last martial arts class. I’m like, but I’m so proud of you for like really doing that for two years. You know, and like I need to do that or you know, my son, my oldest, he has taken like such an interest in bodybuilding.
00:47:41:09 – 00:48:01:01
Speaker 2
And I was like, hey, are there any competitions you could do? Or is there anybody that you could train that you know, maybe where you were four years ago that’s kind of having a hard time in the gym that you could just show you could design a program for. Actually there’s like an older brother.
00:48:01:01 – 00:48:02:09
Speaker 3
Of one.
00:48:02:09 – 00:48:19:09
Speaker 2
Of my younger son’s friends that he put on like 50 pounds, and he was kind of like embarrassed to go to the gym. And my, my son is like, hey, this is like Non-judgmental Zone. I’ll meet you at any time of the day. Like, you know, it’s taken me a long time to get to where I’m at. Yeah.
00:48:19:09 – 00:48:40:22
Speaker 2
He was like excited about that. So I think it’s like helping your kids find opportunities around their talents. And even, you know, like I was saying earlier that I collaborated with another podcaster and, like, sang a backup hook when I found out that he was a musician for 30 years and he had all these songs, I, I threw it out there.
00:48:40:22 – 00:48:51:18
Speaker 2
I was like, I have a mic, I have a set up at home. I know he knows how to auto tune. I know that he had even disclosed to me that somebody told him he had a bad voice and they needed voice lessons.
00:48:51:18 – 00:48:57:13
Speaker 3
I was like, I know this guy. Oh, give me a shot. And I’m really proud of the fact that we’ve put out two songs.
00:48:57:13 – 00:48:59:19
Speaker 2
And it may not have been like the genre I would have.
00:48:59:19 – 00:49:01:21
Speaker 3
Picked, but like, he made us sound.
00:49:01:21 – 00:49:20:03
Speaker 2
Great together, and it was such a fun project and it lit me up doing that in my own closet. And then I’m like, hey, like, maybe since I’ve already had a professional musician, like, record the Better Call Daddy show, like, maybe I’ll go into a studio and like, give that a go and like, sing that just by myself.
00:49:20:03 – 00:49:27:03
Speaker 2
Or maybe I’ll try to do it at home and see if this guy could, like, autotune it and make it sound awesome.
00:49:27:05 – 00:50:03:09
Speaker 1
That is so great. You know? So, like, I keep thinking about how in our education systems, like, there are, in schools, there are very like specific classes, like there’s math there, science, there’s, music, there’s arts. Like, there’s, English. There’s all these, they’re all compartmentalized. And so I guess in one way, you do, you do get that feedback of, oh, it seems like I’m better at numbers or it seems like I’m better at humanities.
00:50:03:11 – 00:50:33:02
Speaker 1
So you kind of get that messaging. And I think for some people like me, there’s like a lot of shame around that because I was not great at all of the useful topics to society, I guess. Like, I yeah, just so much and I’m wondering, how do you think going forward we can organize schools or classes or the way that we educate our children?
00:50:33:04 – 00:51:00:04
Speaker 1
In a way where we are giving them exposure to like, hey, these are the different subjects that you might be interested in, but also set it up in a way where we’re giving them opportunities to, like, lean into their strengths and, create these leadership opportunities for themselves to either help others or, you know, improve their own or things like that.
00:51:00:07 – 00:51:22:20
Speaker 2
I even reached out to the head of school where my kids are at, and I was like, hey, I know you started a podcast. Like, is there any opportunities where I could give back at the school other than just serving pizza lunch? Like my husband did speak to the middle school in high school last year about ways that you can apply science in the real world.
00:51:22:22 – 00:51:46:20
Speaker 2
I think stuff like that is cool and kind of like an ask me anything, you know, like I think you have to make opportunities because schools are so busy. And truthfully, I take my daughter to networking events. She’s really good at makeup, and she took an interest in all these TikTok videos of how to do makeup. So I let her do my makeup for shoots.
00:51:46:20 – 00:52:08:12
Speaker 2
When I do like in-person shoots, I’ve had her do my makeup for lots of different occasions, and if I feel like I don’t know anyone at an event, I’m going to you. And it’s not like at a bar or something. I’ve taken her to women’s events, I’ve taken her to podcast events so she can kind of see like how to work the room.
00:52:08:13 – 00:52:35:22
Speaker 2
Also, you know, I’ve, I’ve talked to I recently had on this lady I mentioned earlier, Doctora Sandra and she was saying as a kid, she was told that she was good at math. And so that helped shape her path. I think that we need to tell our kids that they can be good at something, that maybe the teacher is telling them they can be good at.
00:52:36:00 – 00:52:56:16
Speaker 2
I I’ve been a late bloomer as far as the reading, as far as the math, as far as the science, I don’t think I was really told that I was great at any of those things. But science can be broken down so simply like you can observe something in nature and think, that’s cool, and then come up with a hypothesis about it.
00:52:56:18 – 00:53:20:08
Speaker 2
It can it can simply be like exploring something further, like, my husband was super into the solar eclipse. He like got an Airbnb. We drove three hours to try to see it better. Stuff like that. Or like take your kids hiking to try to see the comet or just like get into nature, get into the real world and try to teach your kids that way.
00:53:20:10 – 00:53:46:06
Speaker 2
And I know you mentioned homeschooling earlier. We were even thinking about considering that my whole thing is, is you don’t want to replicate exactly what’s happening in the classroom, like, that kind of defeats the purpose, I think. Like, do your kids really want to become masters of all these subjects that they don’t want to become masters of in the school?
00:53:46:08 – 00:53:46:20
Speaker 2
Right.
00:53:46:20 – 00:53:50:03
Speaker 3
So is what is what is homeschool?
00:53:50:03 – 00:54:15:00
Speaker 2
What does that look like? Why? I don’t know. For me, I have noticed that like my son really enjoyed making friends or being on the basketball team. And the first year he did sit out a lot, and the second year he played half of it. And my daughter, same deal. I think she made like one basketball shot the whole season, but she didn’t play on the team for that reason.
00:54:15:00 – 00:54:37:17
Speaker 2
She played on the team because we were new to town and she went to make friends and she wanted to have get togethers, and I think it fulfilled that purpose. And then like I said, you know, does my son want to be like a black belt? No, but it was something that he stuck with and that he completed and if that’s not what you want to get more into, let’s find something else that you’re interested in.
00:54:37:17 – 00:55:01:17
Speaker 2
I mean, I sent him to a minecraft camp. I sent him to an intro to YouTube camp. I’m open to what the kids are into, and I understand that ideas change. And I honestly am not one of those parents either. That’s like, how come you don’t have an A and everything? Or, I think that school is a bit of a game.
00:55:01:19 – 00:55:10:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And for some people, I think the the game is rigged against them.
00:55:10:15 – 00:55:11:18
Speaker 2
I’m a good point.
00:55:11:20 – 00:55:38:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely. One of those people. But I love this idea of, like, the podcasting. Right. Because I really think, that there’s a lot of opportunity here, and I definitely when my daughter is of a certain age, I want to get her into podcasting, because I think the way that, I specifically learn, is by following my curiosity.
00:55:38:14 – 00:56:04:21
Speaker 1
And I’m a social thinker, so I like to think about things with people. And, as I’m talking to you, you know, like I’m shuffling some of these thoughts into very deliberate spaces in my mind so that I can use them later. And so I feel like that podcasting could be a really good way to, a really good framework to educate students.
00:56:04:21 – 00:56:34:02
Speaker 1
And, you know, I often hear from people who use, like, podcasting as, like a business or marketing tool, to establish, like, brand authority and credibility. But I personally use podcasting as, like a research tool to sort of like groupthink. How to like, best reform our education systems. And like, from where I stand, I think you use podcasting.
00:56:34:04 – 00:56:36:22
Speaker 1
Like a therapy tool almost.
00:56:37:00 – 00:56:38:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, definitely.
00:56:38:21 – 00:57:01:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And like the image I get of you is like a social worker. And the way that, you produce your podcast even and how even you were talking earlier about, like, when you were an intern for Jerry Springer, like, because you had experienced all these stories, you were not judging people and you were like, I’ll lift my shirt or you lift your shirt.
00:57:01:09 – 00:57:06:00
Speaker 1
I don’t know what it was, but that was I love that visual. Right? Like of I.
00:57:06:00 – 00:57:20:17
Speaker 3
Actually did that. And oh yeah, they were, you know, they were like flashing the honey heads like sometimes, like I had my own office. I’m like, look. Yeah. Are you willing to do that? I would do that. Yeah. It was like that. But it’s also.
00:57:20:17 – 00:57:54:06
Speaker 2
Like I’ve even seen it in adulthood, right? Like I’ve had a couple miscarriages. I’ve had. Thank you. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people don’t talk about that. And if you do talk about that, then other people that have gone through that will share that with you or you know, I when I have shared that, then even people that have gone through IVF or surrogacy or had stillbirth, it’s there.
00:57:54:06 – 00:58:19:01
Speaker 2
All of these different birth stories have felt comfortable coming forward. And I think another big key is like these things that were ashamed of, that were embarrassed of. And the more people I talk to that have, you know, shared these vulnerable things, I feel more comfortable. I it’s like an inch at a time, like getting to that point where I don’t care.
00:58:19:01 – 00:58:21:01
Speaker 2
This is what’s happened to me. This is.
00:58:21:01 – 00:58:21:21
Speaker 3
My version.
00:58:21:21 – 00:58:27:08
Speaker 2
This is my truth. And somebody needs to hear it.
00:58:27:10 – 00:58:28:12
Speaker 3
00:58:28:14 – 00:58:52:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that’s why I think like you know the way that people use podcasts are so varied. And it really does I think connect to your strength because I think that is your strength, your ability to connect with people. And to like keep that space open for people and not judge them and be be, like you said, an inch at a time.
00:58:52:23 – 00:59:31:12
Speaker 1
Like just sharing, like, vulnerably and matching them where they’re at. And yeah. And so I just feel like podcasting is such a, like great connection tool in the way that supports your strengths or allows your strengths to shine. And I’m curious like, how do you think, we can use podcasting in, in the way that we educate our students going forward, either at home or at school, like you’re doing, connecting with your your daughter’s school.
00:59:31:14 – 00:59:44:19
Speaker 1
How do you think we can, like, make that happen? So that, more students can connect with the world, in the way that supports their own curiosities?
00:59:44:21 – 00:59:53:08
Speaker 2
Well, I’ve seen it now at the head of art school, starting his own podcast. He’s mainly doing solo episodes. I think he should also.
00:59:53:10 – 00:59:55:04
Speaker 3
Interview people because.
00:59:55:04 – 01:00:17:13
Speaker 2
It’d be nice to hear from a social worker, or an extra resource teacher, or somebody that teaches Stem or an art teacher, or like all of the players in the school. I think that that or interview some students or an SAT prep person or a college prep person, like there’s so many players, I think that that could really help.
01:00:17:15 – 01:00:24:23
Speaker 2
But some of the episodes that I have found to be really useful are like.
01:00:25:01 – 01:00:32:06
Speaker 3
What’s happening in the world. And as a head of school who’s near to being a head of school, who has.
01:00:32:08 – 01:01:03:11
Speaker 2
Studied social work or grief or the specialties that he has expertise, and what has his reaction been to having to talk about some of these bigger issues in the world with these younger students? He did a reflection about that, and I thought that that was amazing. Or what happens if somebody dies in the school and you’ve got a kid that was in that child’s class, like, how does that affect you as a dad?
01:01:03:11 – 01:01:16:23
Speaker 2
How does that affect you as a head of school? How does that affect you seeing these students? Like, I think actually those kind of episodes are so needed. Those were the ones that grabbed me.
01:01:17:00 – 01:01:18:06
Speaker 3
01:01:18:07 – 01:01:44:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. I think that those conversational interview based or yeah, those reflection based, episodes, like, based on your own expertise and like, seeing the world that that’s really helpful. I know when I was younger, I didn’t really have an opinion of my own. And I wasn’t encouraged to have opinions of my own, at least at home.
01:01:44:02 – 01:02:36:02
Speaker 1
Like, it was a very obedience based culture. And so, like, you know, that’s something that I want to share with my daughter. I think going forward is how to form an opinion, how to be able to communicate with other people. How do you communicate dissent or disagreement without being disrespectful? Like those kinds of things. And so, like to wrap up our episode here in our beautiful conversation, what do you think are some of, like, the questions or skills that we should be building in our children going forward to give them that confidence to be who they are, not be afraid of disagreeing with people, but also be compassionate, and empathetic
01:02:36:02 – 01:02:40:04
Speaker 1
with people and being able to be vulnerable. I know that’s a huge question.
01:02:40:09 – 01:02:42:13
Speaker 3
I mean, honestly, this is going to sound.
01:02:42:13 – 01:03:00:03
Speaker 2
Funny, but like, I put dog repellent in the yard and my daughter was like, it’s not the dog’s fault that the owner only lets her dog go to the bathroom there. And I was considering adding cayenne pepper to the mix, and she was like, put it back.
01:03:00:05 – 01:03:04:12
Speaker 3
You don’t want to hurt the show. And also, even earlier.
01:03:04:12 – 01:03:25:04
Speaker 2
Before I got to that point, she was like, mom, you’re the only one that this bothers. We’ve we’re all sidestepping the shit. And that actually really taught me a lesson. How come I am the only one that I. You know, that I’m the only one that’s really bothered by it? I actually thought that that was really big of my daughters.
01:03:25:04 – 01:03:45:13
Speaker 2
I think sharing your struggles and sharing also your wins and your adventures, if things are entertaining, you know your your child is younger than mine. But I even ask my kids, like, if you could go anywhere today, where would you want to go? Or do you want to go check out like a new place and like have a date, you know?
01:03:45:13 – 01:04:09:19
Speaker 2
So give them some opportunity to like steer the day. My daughter is super good at coming up with present ideas or like it was Teacher Appreciation Week recently and you know, some of my kids have favorite teachers. And so my son asked me, he was like, what do you think I should get this teacher who I really like?
01:04:09:21 – 01:04:32:16
Speaker 2
And I was like, well, I actually love that, you know, your sister had me make these custom pajama pants of like, funny faces of me all over your dad’s pants. I was like, that’s probably weird for a teacher, but did you make, like, world’s best teacher? And then, like, cut out him from, like, parent locker or, you know, like, do you have a picture of your teacher that you could, like, use as the image?
01:04:32:21 – 01:04:52:00
Speaker 2
And so I helped him drag and drop an image to the desktop and make sure it was high res enough. And we’re going to design a t shirt together. So it’s like just finding ways where you can, like team up with your kids for fun things like that. They also had another day where they could like dress up like a teacher.
01:04:52:02 – 01:05:08:03
Speaker 2
So my daughter got really into that. And, you know, I’m like, want to borrow a wig? You know, I want to use my makeup to draw a freckle was like, you know, maybe you should pull up your pants higher, you know? So it’s like kind of encouraging their ideas and like, participating in them.
01:05:08:05 – 01:05:25:14
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it kind of sounds like, you know, leading, letting them lead with their strengths and, giving them the opportunity. To be the leader and your sort of like a co collaborator, but you’re letting them. Yes.
01:05:25:15 – 01:05:54:22
Speaker 2
Engineer 100%. And I actually really love what you said about teaching them dissent and how to say things kind of in a diplomatic way, when some of our kids have had trouble with teachers. My husband is really eloquent in his communication and in what to say, and I have shared how he responds.
01:05:55:04 – 01:05:55:18
Speaker 3
01:05:55:19 – 01:06:01:00
Speaker 2
I, I try to share actually, like, hey, I tried this and your father tried this.
01:06:01:00 – 01:06:07:04
Speaker 3
And and loop them in. Sometimes I like forward my kids like the communication.
01:06:07:04 – 01:06:25:19
Speaker 2
And one time there was a teacher, oh my God. And we were moving. And it was our second move in like six months. And my son overslept because he was like helping us pack the truck. He’s like a sturdy kid and this teacher’s like, I have a no, like, makeup policy. Like, if you miss it, I’m sorry. Like, he like, doesn’t man.
01:06:25:19 – 01:06:36:01
Speaker 2
And my son is like very into getting good grades. And I messaged this teacher I was like, look, I know you have a no makeup role. We’re like in circumstances that don’t happen.
01:06:36:01 – 01:06:56:01
Speaker 3
Like our house was infested. The company moved us out like we’re moving ourselves now it’s in the middle of the school year. Our son was lifting half of the furniture like, yeah, I sent him pictures of, like, the infestation, like. And then I showed that to my son, and the guy was like, okay, how about before getting crazy?
01:06:56:03 – 01:07:01:07
Speaker 3
Don’t tell anyone that I’m going to let you make this sign up. But like, that is nuts.
01:07:01:09 – 01:07:14:20
Speaker 2
And he was like, I can’t believe you turned that now into a yes. And so I think to like my dad has kind of taught me that, that like, it’s never really a no. It’s like a later or you need to rework it.
01:07:14:22 – 01:08:05:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love that, I love that, I think your dad shared something with me when I, spoke with you both, about how he was on the debate team and the way he was able to win a lot of those debates was being able to get them in the rebuttal right, of being able to sort of, share like your last $0.02 in a powerful or impactful way that you are sort of like leading, the, the organizers of the debate to be like, oh, this person has like a legitimate reason or has and an interesting angle.
01:08:05:11 – 01:08:34:07
Speaker 1
And, just to be artful, and I don’t know if artful is the right word, but, you know, to be, to be cognizant of that words have power and that they can shift tables very quickly if you know how to use them correctly. And so I love that you’re bringing in this idea about your, husband being very good with words and, you know, like being convincing.
01:08:34:09 – 01:08:57:21
Speaker 1
So, yeah, I think, you know, as we think about the confidence piece, and like, the being able to disagree and dissent piece, you know, I do agree that that’s something that we should be teaching our children, but also to be able to use their words in an impactful way, to convince other people or to see your perspective.
01:08:57:23 – 01:09:18:08
Speaker 1
So, yeah. Do you have any last words or thoughts, or words of wisdom from like podcasting or like communication, skill building or relationship building or networking, that you think we should carry forward, and teach our next generation of children?
01:09:18:10 – 01:09:35:00
Speaker 2
I want to go back to what you just said about use Your Words, because I even saw an instance of, you know, my five year old this week where another kid was, like, pinching his cheeks, and instead of saying anything back to that because it was like, oh, you’re so cute. You know, he’s he’s a little older than some of the other kids in his class.
01:09:35:02 – 01:09:53:16
Speaker 2
And this kid also did it. The other little kid, you know, I first like, looked at the teacher to see if she was going to help remedy and no. And then my son, instead of saying anything, he ran around the room and then the kid was like running around. So it just it starts at such a young age.
01:09:53:16 – 01:10:33:13
Speaker 2
And if you can teach your kids to say, hey, I don’t like that, or hey, don’t touch me, it just it starts so young. And it’s amazing that if you don’t teach them, it can be carried on throughout their entire life. So just be involved. Like staff your phones, you know, like, notice these little things. Also like know when your kid’s assignments are do know know your kids teachers names.
01:10:33:13 – 01:11:02:02
Speaker 2
Know who their friends are. These things are so, so key. There’s just a lot that happens under the radar. If if you don’t know those things, it can be in plain sight. I think so the final message is like, I really know who all of my kid’s friends are. I want to know their parents. I want to know about their day, not just, hey, how was it?
01:11:02:02 – 01:11:19:23
Speaker 2
But what are you working on? What are you excited about? What do you want to do this summer? Or when are we going to hang out? What books are you reading you want to read when at the same time you want to watch a movie? That’s another thing to like. My ten year old the other day, he was like, how about we watched like 20 minutes of my show and then we’ll watch 20 minutes of your show.
01:11:19:23 – 01:11:41:08
Speaker 2
That’s that’s something even simple like that can be so great. And I’m like, now I know the name of his show. Like, no, no, your kids interests. You seem like such basic things, but they can make such a world of a difference. Like, I don’t even know if my parents, like, knew my favorite artist or knew my favorite shows, or knew the books I was reading.
01:11:41:10 – 01:11:46:16
Speaker 2
That would have mattered to me.
01:11:46:18 – 01:11:55:15
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for listening. If any part of this episode resonated with you, please connect with us on social media at the links in the show notes. Until next time.